[denfromoakvillemilton]

That's beyond ridiculous. Your anti-Chow bias just got turned up to 11.

It looks like she'll poll a distant second. Mr. Goldkind won't even poll Stintz/Soks numbers, and I'll be very surprised if Ford's percentage vote is anywhere close to his polling. It's one thing to giggle and give a middle finger answer to a telephone poll, and another to actually go out and bother to vote. Last time around, Ford Nation had a (misplaced, IMHO) righteous anger and a hero who looked like he could get elected. This time around they have a poorer candidate and ZERO help from centrists who HATE the candidate.

It's at 11 because I can clearly see her going through the motions RRR. Her press conference this morning was an example of it. I actually have nothing against her policies. I just wanted her to give a damn. Look at Tory when he talks. Same with Doug, he wants to go to Chicago and will do so on December 1.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If there is any criticisms of OC, it isn't her stance on LTT or school lunches for crying out loud, it is the lack of willingness to tackle the issues facing the city in the medium/long-term. Additional buses, kiddie meals are nice and all that, but I think it's not substantative enough.

Exactly!

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

It's at 11 because I can clearly see her going through the motions RRR. Her press conference this morning was an example of it. I actually have nothing against her policies. I just wanted her to give a damn. Look at Tory when he talks. Same with Doug, he wants to go to Chicago and will do so on December 1.

It's funny you say this, because I was actually on the fence between Tory and Chow until I actually watched a televised debate. She was all talking points and cheap shots, and Tory looked and sounded like the only adult in the room. It was embarrassing.

To me, the whole point of this election is to get rid of the Fords, and elect a mayor who will bring back some modicum of respectability to our municipal government. Chow has given little hint that she's capable of this.

 

[nfitz]

I understand the principle, but sometimes it's just not possible to get the kind of vehicle (or other product) you want among those built in Ontario or Canada. You need to consider the kind of volume that would make it worthwhile for a manufacturer to set up operations in Canada.

I have a Mexican-built VW. It's an excellent car, still going strong after 10 years.

Interestingly, I recently had the chance to drive a Golf - and I was surprised that it still sounded like a rather loud lawnmower similar to the VW Rabbits I had the misfortune to learn how to drive on. Wasn't very impressed with the shifting either (standard gearbox) - brought back flashbacks ...

Combined with the prices, I doubt I'm going to have an issue with a lack of Canadian manufacturing ability ... I'm hoping by the time I get the next car, that I won't need a car, and can stick to something like AutoShare.

 

[nfitz]

nfitz, you should be way more concerned about the platform he's running on today, than silly stuff like this from many years ago.

Even if I hadn't have already eliminated Tory because of his shady past, I'd quickly eliminate him with his promises of no service cuts, tax increases below inflation, and instead finding efficiencies and savings. It's a very traditional right-wing platform that makes no sense - as we've already seen with Rob Ford. And then there's his bizarre SmartTrack programme that spends lots of city money to achieve stuff already promised by GO Transit, and seems to have more benefits for the residents of Markham than it does for those in North York!

I just wanted her to give a damn. Look at Tory when he talks.

That's not desire in his eyes. That's the shear terror of failing yet again, and not ever having known any meaningful victory in her political career. Chow isn't familiar with this, having won most of her battles in the past.

 

[typezed]

But to be fair, the mayor has a huge thread dedicated to him, with almost 100,000 posts and counting.

But I'm thinking the conversation here probably reflects many conversations about politics in workplaces and dinner tables throughout the city. These kind of easily debunked or minor or irrelevent shots at Tory and Chow seem to have a lot of staying power and can be effective as criticism, while the very real abuses of the Fords get discounted because they're just another part of the overwhelming circus they created.

 

[salsa]

Even if I hadn't have already eliminated Tory because of his shady past, I'd quickly eliminate him with his promises of no service cuts, tax increases below inflation, and instead finding efficiencies and savings. It's a very traditional right-wing platform that makes no sense - as we've already seen with Rob Ford. And then there's his bizarre SmartTrack programme that spends lots of city money to achieve stuff already promised by GO Transit, and seems to have more benefits for the residents of Markham than it does for those in North York!

Yes, thank you. Reports that shown that Toronto has a revenue problem, not a spending problem. And yet, no matter how many times we elected a failed right-wing blowhard, the idea that we need to find efficiencies instead and keep taxes low never seems to die. So of course, when I opened the G&M this morning I found this:

John Tory is promising no services will be cut if he is elected, saying he would keep tax increases at or below the rate of inflation by finding efficiencies and wringing more money for Toronto out of the federal and provincial governments.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

Even if I hadn't have already eliminated Tory because of his shady past, I'd quickly eliminate him with his promises of no service cuts, tax increases below inflation, and instead finding efficiencies and savings. It's a very traditional right-wing platform that makes no sense - as we've already seen with Rob Ford. And then there's his bizarre SmartTrack programme that spends lots of city money to achieve stuff already promised by GO Transit, and seems to have more benefits for the residents of Markham than it does for those in North York!

I'd counter that Chow has a very traditional left-wing platform that makes no sense - more subsidized housing, more city-run programs, more regulation, and (minor) tax increases. We can spend all day picking holes in their respective platforms, but ultimately we all have to decide which one we think will - on balance - make a better mayor. Obviously you're free to have your opinions, but the hyperbole doesn't help anyone.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

Yes, thank you. Reports that shown that Toronto has a revenue problem, not a spending problem. And yet, no matter how many times we elected a failed right-wing blowhard, the idea that we need to find efficiencies instead and keep taxes low never seems to die. So of course, when I opened the G&M this morning I found this:

John Tory is promising no services will be cut if he is elected, saying he would keep tax increases at or below the rate of inflation by finding efficiencies and wringing more money for Toronto out of the federal and provincial governments.

Except that Chow is promising lots of new spending if elected, with tax increases around the rate of inflation. If we believe that there are no efficiencies to be found then they are both lying! In an election campaign? What a surprise.

 

[salsa]

Except that Chow is promising lots of new spending if elected, with tax increases around the rate of inflation. If we believe that there are no efficiencies to be found then they are both lying! In an election campaign? What a surprise.

More spending is exactly what's needed unless you think we should just let our infrastructure crumble. I'm not saying that Chow's plan is great (because it's isn't), but lets not forget which candidate wants the city to borrow billions for the dumbtrack and it's phoney financing scheme, and still support the future white elephant subway line in Scarborough. Anyone who claims to be a fiscal conservative does not get my vote, because they are always the exact opposite.

 

[nfitz]

I'd counter that Chow has a very traditional left-wing platform that makes no sense - more subsidized housing, more city-run programs, more regulation, and (minor) tax increases. We can spend all day picking holes in their respective platforms, but ultimately we all have to decide which one we think will - on balance - make a better mayor.

It's hard to see how more subsidized housing is a bad thing, given the backlog. I'm not aware of a proposal to significantly increase city-run programs. Or for more regulation. Chow has also promised not to increase city taxes faster than inflation - she should be promising more.

Obviously you're free to have your opinions, but the hyperbole doesn't help anyone.

I don't see how pointing out Tory's running on same no tax increases no service cuts find efficiencies that Rob and Doug Ford ran on is hyperbole.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

More spending is exactly what's needed unless you think we should just let our infrastructure crumble. I'm not saying that Chow's plan is great (because it's isn't), but lets not forget which candidate wants the city to borrow billions for the dumbtrack and it's phoney financing scheme, and still support the future white elephant subway line in Scarborough. Anyone who claims to be a fiscal conservative does not get my vote, because they are always the exact opposite.

They're both bad plans; but at least Tory's will result in him getting elected. Same with the Scarborough subway! After the election the planners can figure out what will actually get built, as always happens.

It's hard to see how more subsidized housing is a bad thing, given the backlog. I'm not aware of a proposal to significantly increase city-run programs. Or for more regulation. Chow has also promised not to increase city taxes faster than inflation - she should be promising more.

Money for nothing will always have a waiting list! Subsidized housing doesn't help people get out of poverty, it just institutionalizes it. Look at the Options for Homes model if you want to know how to help people without creating a government bureaucracy in the process. Likewise, she wants to help the job market by forcing companies to hire young people - who is going to enforce this? Even if it works it will only displace other people from those jobs. She is also proposing more subsidized after school programs, more subsidized child care, more subsidized school lunches, and so on. As the polls seem to confirm, most people just want good jobs so they can take care of themselves and their families. You don't get that by expanding the bureaucracy.

Anecdotally, my personal experience has been that anything city run is basically crap compared to private options, both for-profit and not-for-profit. If someone is going to try to help me with child care, for example, I would much rather they just give me the money so I can find a place that meets our needs.

 

[salsa]

They're both bad plans; but at least Tory's will result in him getting elected. Same with the Scarborough subway! After the election the planners can figure out what will actually get built, as always happens.

Because Tory getting elected is more important than the future of this city. Because politicians are never the ones who decide which transit actually gets built. [/SARCASM]

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

Because, on balance, I think Tory would make a better mayor than Chow, and ultimately it will be Kathleen Wynne who decides whether Smarttrack gets built as proposed. Don't you understand how election campaigns actually work?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

It's funny you say this, because I was actually on the fence between Tory and Chow until I actually watched a televised debate. She was all talking points and cheap shots, and Tory looked and sounded like the only adult in the room. It was embarrassing.

To me, the whole point of this election is to get rid of the Fords, and elect a mayor who will bring back some modicum of respectability to our municipal government. Chow has given little hint that she's capable of this.

Well she's giving red meat to her supporters right. If she was leading I think we wouldn't care imo.

That's not desire in his eyes. That's the shear terror of failing yet again, and not ever having known any meaningful victory in her political career. Chow isn't familiar with this, having won most of her battles in the past.

Which is why she doesn't care. Being honest, she has the least to lose from the three major candidates.