[kEiThZ]

FWIW, I was very much an anti-Ford vote, and I would have voted for Chow or Tory or a lamp, depending on who was leading in the last polls.

I'm still gobsmacked by (a) right-leaning posters who call Ford 'centre-right' and have a scorched earth policy towards Chow and (b) left-leaning posters who wouldn't vote for the devil John Tory, 'cause, you know, horns. And he's just Ford in sheep's clothing.

I'm hoping that, outside of our little sandbox/hothouse, both sides are much more reasonable in their opinions and it's just part of the forum/anonymity thing.

This. Exactly this. I still don't get the comments that equate Tory with Ford, in this forum or others. It's not even close.

Either some don't know the difference between right and centre-right or they just don't know how far to the left they actually are.

On the left, Chow is a little too far to the left for my tastes, but I'd have no issues voting for her if I had to (say there was a strong mayor system).

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Indeed - mind you, the same goes for those who equate OC as a "leftist" or "communist" - there is nothing particularly so about her either.

AoD

 

[Scarberian]

kEiThZ, maybe what I mean regarding gut feeling is that the facts and reality of the specific "sparing points" as you say don't matter in themselves. What matters, and the issues that stick, are those that symbolically represent the gut feelings of a large segment of voters.

Agreed, politics is also a game of optics, timing, and "hearts before minds". It's not just about policies and facts, if it was Socknaki might still be in this race, and possibly leading. Bluntly speaking, IMO this race will not be won or lost solely on policies and facts alone, reading this book may help refresh people's mind on what kind of game we're watching.

 

[kEiThZ]

If he got the people/political skills he claims (and one hopes) he has, he can surely fulfill the role in what has historically always been a weak mayor system. If not, well, at least it probably won't be nearly as bad as the last four years of nonsense (for one, he isn't likely to show up representing the city drunk or ended up on CNN for all the wrong reasons). I think in this case platform matters less than one's ability to build consensus and work with others.

AoD

Fully agree. And that's what makes these mayoral campaigns bizarre. You have candidates pitching ideas which they have no real power to deliver on. They have to rely on the province and Feds for funding. And they have to get other councillors to support their plan. And yet nobody considers the risk of those deliberations.

Consider for example, what would happen if Chow were elected and we started having deliberations on the DRL. You'd have downtown councillors each sticking up for their preferred routing. And suburban councillors pushing to get routings and limit stations to speed suburbanites to work faster.

So really, the most essential qualities I a weak mayor system are the ability to work with others and to compromise. Flip-flopping is actually a virtue under this system.

Personally, this is why I'd love to have a strong mayor system or party politics (with the leader of the winning party becoming mayor) at the municipal level. Unified platforms with the majority of council agreeing on their mandate.

 

[kEiThZ]

Indeed - mind you, the same goes for those who equate OC as a "leftist" or "communist" - there is nothing particularly so about her either.

AoD

Agreed. I find those accusations bizarre too. I think she's basically left of centre-left if you will.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Indeed - mind you, the same goes for those who equate OC as a "leftist" or "communist" - there is nothing particularly so about her either.

AoD

Prior to Harper getting elected, it was considered rude in canadian public to make those kind of extremist accusations.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

Agreed. I find those accusations bizarre too. I think she's basically left of centre-left if you will.

Eh, I wouldn't really say that. She was a sitting member of the NDP, whose constitution includes the following within the preamble:

New Democrats seek a future that brings together the best of the insights and objectives of Canadians
who, within the social democratic and democratic socialist traditions, have worked through farmer,
labour, co-operative, feminist, human rights and environmental movements, and with First Nations,
Métis and Inuit peoples, to build a more just, equal, and sustainable Canada within a global community
dedicated to the same goals.

Sure she is not an actual Communist and has never expressed support for the violent overthrow of capitalist regimes, but she is solidly on the left end of the mainstream political spectrum.

Source: http://www.thecanadaguide.com/political-parties

 

[W. K. Lis]

In the
Pop quiz: Ford, Chow, Tory asked about personal habits

article in The Star, at this link, it was asked the following:

Doyle: “What is the one thing you can’t stand about the city of Toronto?”

Ford: “Outside of the press? No, I’m pulling your leg on that one. What I can’t stand is the layers and layers of bureaucracy.”

Tory: “Well, the lack of cleanliness is coming on, but I would say it still hasn’t passed, in first place, traffic.”

Chow: “Poverty. It comes back to the first question you asked: it is very tough for some families to make ends meet, and we have entire neighbourhoods where people are being left behind.

The press, in general, will have better access under either Tory or Chow. Under Doug Ford, it will be about the same situation as under Rob Ford, "no questions thank you bye". Expect the Rope Stanchions to be less, if not disappear.

 

[WislaHD]

Chow: “Poverty. It comes back to the first question you asked: it is very tough for some families to make ends meet, and we have entire neighbourhoods where people are being left behind.

Gosh, I just can't take Chow seriously anymore after her 60k = comfortable salary in the city claim yesterday.

Someone please tell me she meant both parents and not total household income.

 

[kEiThZ]

Gosh, I just can't take Chow seriously anymore after her 60k = comfortable salary in the city claim yesterday.

Someone please tell me she meant both parents and not total household income.

Her supporters on Twitter now claim that she clearly meant that. But that's not how I recall her answer.

And to say that poverty is the worst aspect of Toronto? Really? My family is originally from Mumbai and you won't get any Mumbaikars saying that about Mumbai, let alone a mayoral candidate of one of the highest rated cities in the world. Toronto is not some third world city with grinding poverty. Have some pride for heaven's sake!

 

[Kat_YYZ]

Gosh, I just can't take Chow seriously anymore after her 60k = comfortable salary in the city claim yesterday.

Someone please tell me she meant both parents and not total household income.

well, I don't know how much kids cost, but two people isn't that much more expenses than one, except for clothes and food. They get to split rent, utilities and many other things.

Of course, I'm renting. If we are talking about home ownership, then...

 

[WislaHD]

well, I don't know how much kids cost, but two people isn't that much more expenses than one, except for clothes and food. They get to split rent, utilities and many other things.

Of course, I'm renting. If we are talking about home ownership, then...

The question was addressed as a comfortable wage for a family of 4, 2 parents and 2 teenage children.

 

[canmark]

And to say that poverty is the worst aspect of Toronto? Really? My family is originally from Mumbai and you won't get any Mumbaikars saying that about Mumbai, let alone a mayoral candidate of one of the highest rated cities in the world. Toronto is not some third world city with grinding poverty. Have some pride for heaven's sake!

I don’t think she’s saying that the poverty in Toronto is worse than the poverty in Mumbai (anymore than Tory is saying the traffic in Toronto is worse than the traffic in Mumbai), but that it’s shameful that in a city as wealthy and prosperous as Toronto, there are still many families, seniors and individuals who are living below the poverty line (not to mention the many homeless people, panhandlers and mentally challenged people that we see on our city streets).

That said, our city, province and country does offer many resources to the poor, disabled, unemployed and underemployed – something we should be proud of. But we mustn’t think that subways, subways, subways are some kind of panacea. Maybe if the rich and powerful really did offer a “hand up†rather than a ($20) “handout†(as Doug Ford is always remarking), this would be a better place. But the Ford brothers always seem to be voting against (and railing against) programs that will benefit the poor, families, and people with challenges. Very few of us own multiple residences, need warehouses to store our art, have wives who shop at Chanel, and can give away Cadillac Escalades as gifts. But I guess if you lived like that, you might think the city’s worst problem was bureaucracy.

----------

Note: the original question asked not what was the worst aspect of Toronto, but “What is the one thing you can’t stand about the city of Toronto?â€

How might you answer that question?

 

[Kat_YYZ]

Her supporters on Twitter now claim that she clearly meant that. But that's not how I recall her answer.

And to say that poverty is the worst aspect of Toronto? Really? My family is originally from Mumbai and you won't get any Mumbaikars saying that about Mumbai, let alone a mayoral candidate of one of the highest rated cities in the world. Toronto is not some third world city with grinding poverty. Have some pride for heaven's sake!

well, if that's pride then we're back in the 50s. don't talk about abuse at home, depression, the uncle that drinks too much, or that the priest touched you, etc. It's embarrassing! Sweep it under the rug.

Of course poverty is a relative term -- no one thinks Toronto is equal to Mumbai. But the attitude you described is one reason Chow's message is not resonating. People don't want to talk about hungry kids in Toronto; they don't want to believe that there are hungry kids in Toronto -- it makes them uncomfortable. Nervous laughter, "how about those Leafs, eh?" -- change the subject; "Are you getting the new iPhone? Did you watch Game Of Thrones?" everything is fine, no one is hungry here!

You can't solve problems if you're going to pretend they don't exist.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Actually, being bothered by the level of poverty in Toronto IS a point of pride.

I, for one, am embarrassed by it, considering the wealth of the country we live in, but also recognise that the level of poverty here has almost nothing to do with the municipal government. The provincial and federal governments have much more effective policy tools with which to address poverty.