[the lemur]

FWIW, I was very much an anti-Ford vote, and I would have voted for Chow or Tory or a lamp, depending on who was leading in the last polls.

Lamp! Lamp! He's our champ!

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

FWIW, I was very much an anti-Ford vote, and I would have voted for Chow or Tory or a lamp, depending on who was leading in the last polls.

I'm still gobsmacked by (a) right-leaning posters who call Ford 'centre-right' and have a scorched earth policy towards Chow and (b) left-leaning posters who wouldn't vote for the devil John Tory, 'cause, you know, horns. And he's just Ford in sheep's clothing.

I'm hoping that, outside of our little sandbox/hothouse, both sides are much more reasonable in their opinions and it's just part of the forum/anonymity thing.

The hyperbole and vitriol from both sides is absurd and depressing and, like you, I hope it just seems worse for those of us who follow this stuff closely.

There are people have just the deepest fear Olivia Chow will turn the city into some sort of Marxist hellhole and others who think Tory is just a smarter Rob Ford ; both POVs that are totally absurd to anyone who has followed either in any detail.

Everyone is so far up their own butts they can't see the sunlight. I see so many Chow supporters on Twitter etc. just bashing Tory non-stop without a single question about her own platform, which is only ever so slightly more well-formed. If you wanna bash SmartTrack, you can bash it but to go on and on about it as if any candidate has a sensible transit plan is just annoying. I get it - you like Olivia. Vote for her, more power to you!

But beware, other people think your candidate is AT LEAST as horrible as you think their candidate is. That's part of living in a democracy. Neither Tory nor Chow is even remotely the personal or political mess that Rob or Doug Ford are; the city will still be standing in 4 years, I promise.

It's probably news to Rob that he can't take credit for those cranes in the sky or the high tourism numbers but even those who hate him should look at those things and consider that if the city can keep going like that with Rob Ford in office, how bent do you have to be to think that either Tory or Chow will do anything bad enough to derail it? The city is more resilient than people give it credit for and demonizing someone who doesn't fit your world-view strikes me as counter-productive, at best.

 

[GenerationW]

The Chow campaign just held a press conference announcing the results of a study of Tory's SmartTrack plan by an economist they hired. Joe Mihevic, who was present, and the economist (Mitchell something-or-other) looked like they didn't want to be there, and the journalists in attendance seemed even less interested.

Olivia Chow did not attend.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The Chow campaign just held a press conference announcing the results of a study of Tory's SmartTrack plan by an economist they hired. Joe Mihevic, who was present, and the economist (Mitchell something-or-other) looked like they didn't want to be there, and the journalists in attendance seemed even less interested.

Olivia Chow did not attend.

Don't leave us hanging! What did you think, do you have a video, etc.

 

[GenerationW]

Don't leave us hanging! What did you think, do you have a video, etc.

No video -- just saw it on CP24.

Looked to me like they were just going through the motions.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I believe she was lost at the Cancer diagnosis. She was whaling on Rofo til then . After that she didnt know how to act. She (and her team one supposes) decided to play nice with cancer boy. Then the polls (the real ones we don't t get to see) told her Doug was not a real threat so she went easy on him and started riding Tory, her only perceived threat. Along come Ari spouting true leftist ideals in a palatable (to the left) way and the contrast was stark. No Olivia there are no coronation s. The whole mess makes me sad.

I'm of the same position. Of course if Chow was in the lead she'd need to have a much different (coherent...?) platform.

Agreed to both! I just think that she was knocked off balance by that and Warren Kinsella. I feel she thought this would be easy.

The hyperbole and vitriol from both sides is absurd and depressing and, like you, I hope it just seems worse for those of us who follow this stuff closely.

There are people have just the deepest fear Olivia Chow will turn the city into some sort of Marxist hellhole and others who think Tory is just a smarter Rob Ford ; both POVs that are totally absurd to anyone who has followed either in any detail.

Everyone is so far up their own butts they can't see the sunlight. I see so many Chow supporters on Twitter etc. just bashing Tory non-stop without a single question about her own platform, which is only ever so slightly more well-formed. If you wanna bash SmartTrack, you can bash it but to go on and on about it as if any candidate has a sensible transit plan is just annoying. I get it - you like Olivia. Vote for her, more power to you!

But beware, other people think your candidate is AT LEAST as horrible as you think their candidate is. That's part of living in a democracy. Neither Tory nor Chow is even remotely the personal or political mess that Rob or Doug Ford are; the city will still be standing in 4 years, I promise.

It's probably news to Rob that he can't take credit for those cranes in the sky or the high tourism numbers but even those who hate him should look at those things and consider that if the city can keep going like that with Rob Ford in office, how bent do you have to be to think that either Tory or Chow will do anything bad enough to derail it? The city is more resilient than people give it credit for and demonizing someone who doesn't fit your world-view strikes me as counter-productive, at best.

Well John did endorse Rob in 2010! But seriously I think Chow's supporters are doing that because she is facing pressure to drop out. They don't like that, or the fact she might be blamed in Doug wins. But how would it look if we blamed the only woman in the race for winning and not the plurality male electorate?

 

[nohostages]

I respectfully disagree. Gut feel is largely about the base. And each politician has their respective base. Political sparring, however, is about winning where elections are decided: in the centre.

I know I'm still deciding who is best for the job, and the completely different issue of how best to spend my vote even though my gut is always progressive. I remember Bush Gore and Nader like it was yesterday.

 

[WislaHD]

I believe she was lost at the Cancer diagnosis. She was whaling on Rofo til then . After that she didnt know how to act. She (and her team one supposes) decided to play nice with cancer boy. Then the polls (the real ones we don't t get to see) told her Doug was not a real threat so she went easy on him and started riding Tory, her only perceived threat. Along come Ari spouting true leftist ideals in a palatable (to the left) way and the contrast was stark. No Olivia there are no coronation s. The whole mess makes me sad.

Speaking of, I was out on a stroll in the neighborhood today and actually have seen a palpable amount of Goldkind lawn signs out there, not many, and lost in the sea of Tory, but more than 2 or 3.

 

[nohostages]

Speaking of, I was out on a stroll in the neighborhood today and actually have seen a palpable amount of Goldkind lawn signs out there, not many, and lost in the sea of Tory, but more than 2 or 3.

I truly hope he runs again in future. The support he garners now should be encouraging to his team even if it doesn't amount to many real votes. A clever Chow team would offer him a high position if he throws in for her camp.

 

[TrickyRicky]

kEiThZ, maybe what I mean regarding gut feeling is that the facts and reality of the specific "sparing points" as you say don't matter in themselves. What matters, and the issues that stick, are those that symbolically represent the gut feelings of a large segment of voters.

For instance on this forum we debate the factual nuances of transit policy. People just don't care about this and frankly have no idea what they are talking about even if they do care. With respect to election choice what matters is how the transit position characterizes a feeling people have about the candidate and the circumstances of the election.

Finally, I just want to make sure we don't downplay or dismiss the idea of gut feeling over rational objective decision making. Most or if not all of the most important decisions we make in life will be based on our gut feeling. In a way, good gut feeling decision making is at the core of sophisticated decision making. Business decisions, who you choose as a relationship partner, and yes who you vote for is a gut feeling. You may identify ideologically with a candidate but many people will have a gut feeling that they should vote with or against their default bias based on a gut feeling about the circumstances of the election.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

No video -- just saw it on CP24.

Looked to me like they were just going through the motions.

They just want this to be over. I don't blame them.

Speaking of, I was out on a stroll in the neighborhood today and actually have seen a palpable amount of Goldkind lawn signs out there, not many, and lost in the sea of Tory, but more than 2 or 3.

I truly hope he runs again in future. The support he garners now should be encouraging to his team even if it doesn't amount to many real votes. A clever Chow team would offer him a high position if he throws in for her camp.

Ari had a real plan and passion for the city. Too bad the Ford's are around.

 

[kEiThZ]

Sure, but are you willing to risk a vote for Chow just to satisfy your personal desire for moral satisfaction? What if the polls are wrong in the opposite direction?

Personally I think Chow had the opportunity and blew it with her past and continued mis-positioning. That said, I am curious to think of how others felt about the the what-if scenario of Chow being in the lead and the supportability of her candidacy by the centre-right voters.

AoD

Personally, I don't believe in strategic voting. I think it perverts the practice of democracy and turns it into a popularity contest.

I voted for Tory yesterday, because I liked his platform. And I would have voted for him if he was losing in the polls. And I respect those Chow supporters who vote for her because they sincerely believe in her platform. There's something to be said for standing on principle.

That said, everybody has to decide how much of a threat Ford is to them. For me, he's one vote on council and I can live with him getting elected. For once, I'm grateful that the strong mayor system that I advocate for is not in place. On the the other hand, some might see four years of bickering as a real problem.

 

[ehlow]

Speaking of, I was out on a stroll in the neighborhood today and actually have seen a palpable amount of Goldkind lawn signs out there, not many, and lost in the sea of Tory, but more than 2 or 3.

Did you see any Chow or Ford? I honestly haven't seen any yet in our area, not even one.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

That said, everybody has to decide how much of a threat Ford is to them. For me, he's one vote on council and I can live with him getting elected. For once, I'm grateful that the strong mayor system that I advocate for is not in place. On the the other hand, some might see four years of bickering as a real problem.

If he got the people/political skills he claims (and one hopes) he has, he can surely fulfill the role in what has historically always been a weak mayor system. If not, well, at least it probably won't be nearly as bad as the last four years of nonsense (for one, he isn't likely to show up representing the city drunk or ended up on CNN for all the wrong reasons). I think in this case platform matters less than one's ability to build consensus and work with others.

AoD

 

[WislaHD]

Did you see any Chow or Ford? I honestly haven't seen any yet in our area, not even one.

No Fords, a few Chows, but like Goldkind they are lost in a sea of Tory.