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I won't make the blanket statement that "Tory is as bad as Ford" because it's too vague. I'd prefer more specific questions like:
- Would Tory be just as likely as Ford to shut down a library or a childcare centre?
- Would Tory build the same number of bicycle lanes as Ford?
- Would Tory be any more likely than Ford to solve the city's revenue problem, or would he take revenue off the table at the beginning of budget talks?

These are questions that are important to me, and I have serious doubts that Tory is that different than Ford on them. I agree with ShonTron that Tory could be another Lastman. However, I don't look back at the Lastman era as a benign period in this city's history. I think Lastman's obsession with low taxes is partly to blame for many of the transportation/planning issues we have in this city. Lastman put this city in a sort of holding pattern, where nothing improved. We just let our infrastructure decline for six years before Miller came in and we actually started to think about how to solve problems again.

Tory's one saving grace may be that he's an "ideas" person like Miller, rather than a small-minded, "just get the garbage picked up" bumpkin like Lastman and Ford. I just wonder whether Tory's politics will produce, for all practical purposes, another Lastman era.
 
I think Lastman's problem was the downloading that the province, under Mike Harris, did. He was forced to do cutbacks, under duress. Ford doesn't need duress to do that on himself, however he could use duress on others at council.
 
Spotzi, an English company that has developed an algorithm to predict election outcomes based on Twitter activity, projects that Doug Ford will be elected the next mayor of Toronto with 35% of the vote. Olivia Chow will finish close behind Ford with 33% of the vote. Tory will come in third with 32%. Remco Dolman of Spotzi points out that this algorithm has been used to predict the results of elections for the Dutch parliament with a high degree of accuracy. These projections are fluid and will change as we get closer to election day.

Spotzi Projection:
Doug Ford 35%
Olivia Chow: 33%
John Tory: 32%

This projection seems like hogwash to me. But who knows, polls in Canada are remarkably inaccurate so Tory may very well end up in last place come election day ;) (probably not)

http://spotzi.com/en/toronto-elections/
 
Riiiight.
He was a prominent backroom guy for 20+ years. (So everyone knows about his involvement with the Kim Campbell campaign, Mel Lastman etc.)
He was a radio host for, what, about 5 years?
In between he was the leader of the opposition party in Ontario and chaired one of the biggest civic organizations in the region, has received awards and served with (in various capacities) many other major non-profits in the city and beyond.
The guy's a member of the Order of Ontario....I mean really.

If you can't figure out who he is, it may say more about your research skills than his alleged non-persona.

All this points out is his whereabouts....not who he is.

He has made a career of being appointed to things, saying what it is he thinks people expect him to say, and doing things he thinks people expect him to do. It appears his only goal in life is to be "important". All that privilege and what has managed to accomplish with it...nothing. Creatively, he a big fat dud. And this city does not need duds.


And he is getting endorsed, all over the place

The endorsement you need to think about most carefully...is the one he gave to Rob Ford. It gives you a little hint of just what the real John Tory might be.
 
Spotzi, an English company that has developed an algorithm to predict election outcomes based on Twitter activity, projects that Doug Ford will be elected the next mayor of Toronto with 35% of the vote. Olivia Chow will finish close behind Ford with 33% of the vote. Tory will come in third with 32%. Remco Dolman of Spotzi points out that this algorithm has been used to predict the results of elections for the Dutch parliament with a high degree of accuracy. These projections are fluid and will change as we get closer to election day.

Spotzi Projection:
Doug Ford 35%
Olivia Chow: 33%
John Tory: 32%

This projection seems like hogwash to me. But who knows, polls in Canada are remarkably inaccurate so Tory may very well end up in last place come election day ;) (probably not)

http://spotzi.com/en/toronto-elections/

My first critique of this polling method is that The Netherlands is not Canada. In The Netherlands, such a large percentage of the adult population is on social media that the country is incomparable to even other western countries.
 
All this points out is his whereabouts....not who he is.

He has made a career of being appointed to things, saying what it is he thinks people expect him to say, and doing things he thinks people expect him to do. It appears his only goal in life is to be "important". All that privilege and what has managed to accomplish with it...nothing. Creatively, he a big fat dud. And this city does not need duds.

Clearly you're decided and not going to be swayed but it's BS. The man talked extemporaneously four like 3 hours a day for several years. If you can't listen to that and tell WHO HE IS, you cannot be helped. Frankly, 50 debates should be plenty to figure out "who someone is" but Tory's career and what he's said over the years is public and accessible. You're being disingenuous!

Obviously we don't know each other and it's possible, I don't know, you're actually Stephen Harper. But I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that no one is calling you to serve on their board or host their radio show and that, in general, you haven't accomplished one iota of what Tory has and probably never will. (That's OK - I likely won't either!) Oh, you can say "It's because he's white and rich and connected!" but that only gets you so far. Gimme a ring when one of the biggest political parties in the country votes to put you in charge and I'll take it all back.

The endorsement you need to think about most carefully...is the one he gave to Rob Ford. It gives you a little hint of just what the real John Tory might be.

Yeah, yeah, it's not so impressive, is it?
When I meet someone suckered in by Ford last time, I mock them. They deserve mockery for how their ignorance of his obvious flaws damaged the city. But I still don't see the significance of it in the scheme of things. If you ask most people, they'll say, " I didn't know how bad he'd be and I wouldn't do it again." They should have known in the first place, no doubt, but that is the answer Tory has given: "Things change."

They did. He's not the only one who changed his mind in the past four years on these guys. It's not a crime, fer crissakes.

He's not Olivia Chow. If you wanted her to be mayor, you will be disappointed. Too bad. But that doesn't mean he's Rob Ford. There are legit grounds for attacking any of the candidates but I don't buy Tory-as-extremist for a moment and think there is plenty of evidence out there to support my position. As I posted somewhere upthread, the Addario/Polley endorsement of Chow in today's Star mentioned him SEVEN times before mentioning Chow, ostensibly the subject of the article. That's typical of what I've seen the last few weeks. It's nothing less than PATHETIC that NOW magazine would stoop to Doug's level, dredging up the Rosedale Golf Club, to justify voting for Olivia.

If Chow and her Nation spent less time trying to tear Tory down and more time building her up, maybe she wouldn't be getting outpolled by a sociopathic, misogynistic, ignorant, pathological lying bully. But she is. Something to think about.

I think Lastman's problem was the downloading that the province, under Mike Harris, did. He was forced to do cutbacks, under duress. Ford doesn't need duress to do that on himself, however he could use duress on others at council.

No. I mean, yeah, that was PART of it and was a huge challenge for anyone who would have been in Lastman's place. But, let's be clear, Lastman said, before even getting into office, he'd have a tax freeze. I forget how long....2 or 3 years? It was irresponsible given the unforeseen impacts of the downloading and, one could argue, is at the root of the ridiculous arguments that continue to rage about the city's revenue issues.
 
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Clearly you're decided and not going to be swayed but it's BS. The man talked extemporaneously four like 3 hours a day for several years. If you can't listen to that and tell WHO HE IS, you cannot be helped.

Oh...you mean his little pulpit on the right-wing propaganda AM talk radio station, where he pretended to run everything? The same station that gave ROFO & DOFO their own little propaganda show too? Suddenly it isn't so mysterious why Tory supported the Fords.



I don't buy Tory-as-extremist for a moment .

The most dangerous thing about Tory is the general image that he is harmless.
 
And mine look something this over the last month
Tory...today 35.75%...last week 37.74%...two weeks ago 39.11%...three weeks ago 40.72%
Ford...today 30.64%...last week 35.76%...two weeks ago 34.13%...three weeks ago 31.64%
Chow today 24.32%...last week 26.49%...two weeks ago 26.76%...three weeks ago 27.65%

And I'll beat Statgeek to the punch this week on number crunching the polls (in my own inimitable fashion and I don't mean good or bad just Greg)

It looks like J Tory has turned the corner (as most knew already)..well without further ado
J Tory 40.97%...D Ford 33.24%...O Chow 25.79%
 
Oh...you mean his little pulpit on the right-wing propaganda AM talk radio station, where he pretended to run everything? The same station that gave ROFO & DOFO their own little propaganda show too? Suddenly it isn't so mysterious why Tory supported the Fords.

Right, I forgot we're pigenholing everything and anything and ignoring specifics in favour of generalities.
Listen to the Ford show for 5 minutes and you know what they're all about. Listen to Tory and you can hear what he's about. If you think his talk show was "right-wing propaganda," my only conclusion is you don't have a radio with a functional AM band.

But you don't need to listen. You know the radio station is biased ("Most political station ever!"?) and it also gave the Fords a show and therefore his show was propaganda just like theirs and so you don't even need to hear it. You just know....
...I guess the real point is, as I said, there is no point producing evidence when you've already made up your mind. Suffice it to say, if I was a lawyer, I wouldn't want you on a jury.


The most dangerous thing about Tory is the general image that he is harmless.

Riiight. You go with that. I feel like if we can keep this thread going for a couple more pages I can get you to say something like, "Hitler was elected too!"

First you don't even know who he is, and now you know he's dangerous. I don't see a smiley that's rolling his eyes, but imagine that's what I'm doing now.

This may shock you but for every person I know who thinks Tory is no better than the Fords, I know a few who think Olivia will spend this city into its death throes; that she is anything but harmless, that she is a dangerous, extreme socialist.

You probably think those people are out to lunch. I think you're both out to lunch. In fact, I know it because I have paid attention over the years to who Tory is and who Chow is and don't think either is "dangerous."
That's as nice as I can be about your irrational fears but hopefully four years will be enough time to get over them.
 

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