[kEiThZ]

No need to get stressed. Chow isn't get elected. Tory is. And Chow supporters will have to live with it. At this point it's futile, but I expect they'll try and slander Tory any way they can. They're only digging Olivia's political grave further. There have been so many attacks on Tory by the Chow camp, I've kind of forgotten what she stands for. Can't recall the last time she actually spoke about her platform.

Her supporters are also proving to be every bit as divisive and as nasty as Ford nation, even if it's completely unwittingly. This makes me feel even happier and relieved to have voted for Tory. Last thing I want is another four year war at council with a mayor who is now on the side of the downtown/left councillors.

Voting for Tory will be a positive act that actually makes people feel good to pick a consensus builder. Voting for Chow requires the ability to withstand knots in your stomach, in the hope that Chow nation doesn't replace Ford nation for the next four years.

 

[kEiThZ]

And if you don't believe me, look in another thread where another poster has suggested that John Tory is "Israel's lapdog" and that he wouldn't be surprised if attacks happened here because of him.

Like I said, Chow nation.... Same coin. Different side.

 

[Greg Banks]

And if you don't believe me, look in another thread where another poster has suggested that John Tory is "Israel's lapdog" and that he wouldn't be surprised if attacks happened here because of him.

Like I said, Chow nation.... Same coin. Different side.

Which thread?

 

[Scarberian]

Right, I forgot we're pigenholing everything and anything and ignoring specifics in favour of generalities.
Listen to the Ford show for 5 minutes and you know what they're all about. Listen to Tory and you can hear what he's about. If you think his talk show was "right-wing propaganda," my only conclusion is you don't have a radio with a functional AM band.

Re: the talk radio show. At least concerning the Fords. Wasn't it something similar to a time slot the station gives for public service airtime or something to that effect. Josh Matlow has\had a show there as well. Same with a rotating panel IIRC with Wynne, Hudak, and Horwath at one point. Fords basically politicized what IMO previously was more like the last 10 minutes of church bulletin style city announcements and discussions.

But who knows, I don't listen much to AM talk radio for some while now, so maybe Tory really was broadcasting secret sociopathic messages or something. I mean who knows, who -really- knows, ya know.

/plays LedZep record backwards.

Which thread?

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...ity-at-Toronto-s-Armories?p=943709#post943709

 

[picard102]

All that privilege and what has managed to accomplish with it...nothing. Creatively, he a big fat dud. And this city does not need duds.

I suppose Chow's lack of privilege excuses her from having done very little then?

 

[adma]

Bowman vs Wasylycia-Leis in Winnipeg = Tory vs Chow in Toronto. Just sayin'.

 

[the lemur]

Why, John Tory might be another Colin Thatcher, for all we know...

That seems like a stretch. I can see him being about as effective as Denis Thatcher though ...

 

[the lemur]

My first critique of this polling method is that The Netherlands is not Canada. In The Netherlands, such a large percentage of the adult population is on social media that the country is incomparable to even other western countries.

The electoral system is also very different, with voters choosing from a 'party list' of candidates, using proportional representation, and the number of parties is much higher.

(Aside from that, voters in Dutch cities vote for municipal councillors as we do, but the mayor is generally appointed by the reigning monarch, on a recommendation by council.)

 

[kEiThZ]

Which thread?

The one about security of the armouries. Post by doady.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The one about security of the armouries. Post by doady.

FYI All of the off topic posting in that thread has been removed.

MoD

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Re: the talk radio show. At least concerning the Fords. Wasn't it something similar to a time slot the station gives for public service airtime or something to that effect. Josh Matlow has\had a show there as well. Same with a rotating panel IIRC with Wynne, Hudak, and Horwath at one point. Fords basically politicized what IMO previously was more like the last 10 minutes of church bulletin style city announcements and discussions.

This is obviously entirely accurate.
I'm sorry to stay it but talking to Freshcutgrass (or the NOW Magazine crowd etc.) about the fact that John Tory MIGHT just be an OK mayor is literally as futile as trying to explain to a member of Ford Nation that no, Rob is not the most honest politician and the only one who cares and that he saved them $1 billion.

It's sad the Chow people don't say they are operating at the same level of close-minded ideological obtuseness, but that's the reality. I'd hardly be the first to observe that at the extremes, there is little difference between the Crazy Right and the Crazy Left. If you don't think Ford Nation and Chow Nation have a lot in common, just read NOW proudly endorsing Olivia with a laundry list of Doug's talking points:
http://www.nowtoronto.com/news/story.cfm?content=200116

There in black and white, and utterly disappointing to me on many levels.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Right, I forgot we're pigenholing everything and anything and ignoring specifics in favour of generalities.
Listen to the Ford show for 5 minutes and you know what they're all about. Listen to Tory and you can hear what he's about. If you think his talk show was "right-wing propaganda," my only conclusion is you don't have a radio with a functional AM band.

But you don't need to listen. You know the radio station is biased ("Most political station ever!"?) and it also gave the Fords a show and therefore his show was propaganda just like theirs and so you don't even need to hear it. You just know....
...I guess the real point is, as I said, there is no point producing evidence when you've already made up your mind. Suffice it to say, if I was a lawyer, I wouldn't want you on a jury.




Riiight. You go with that. I feel like if we can keep this thread going for a couple more pages I can get you to say something like, "Hitler was elected too!"

First you don't even know who he is, and now you know he's dangerous. I don't see a smiley that's rolling his eyes, but imagine that's what I'm doing now.

This may shock you but for every person I know who thinks Tory is no better than the Fords, I know a few who think Olivia will spend this city into its death throes; that she is anything but harmless, that she is a dangerous, extreme socialist.

You probably think those people are out to lunch. I think you're both out to lunch. In fact, I know it because I have paid attention over the years to who Tory is and who Chow is and don't think either is "dangerous."
That's as nice as I can be about your irrational fears but hopefully four years will be enough time to get over them.

Ok...we need to shut down your straw man pronto.

I am not a "NOW" person, and I'm not an NDP'er either. So putting up a false image of "me" (whom you know zero about) and providing your anecdotle evidence is just your way of deflecting the need to face the indisputable shortcomings of your man Tory. You can say black is white if you like, but it is me who is being specific when I say It was Tory who support Ford. You can pretend that can be whitewashed away by saying it was a "mistake", but it wasn't a mistake...but Tory isn't that stupid or that careless. There's a fundamental reason he supported Ford, and there's fundamental reason he worked for that radio station. And those fundamentals have not changed.

And as for your contention that I have never listened to Tory's radio show, that is also false. In fact, had the fabulous privilege of listening to the entire 1010 lineup during the last campaign, day in and day out, because I was working alongside an old friend who insists on listening to that nonsense from morning to evening. Guess who he voted for? Ford of course. Guess why he voted for him? Because his hero Tory convinced him to.

Despite your attempt at character assassination with false accusations, I have been listening to Tory all lot, and carefully during this campaign. And I see no difference between him now and during the last mayoral campaign, other than the candidate he supports.

And to continue to be specific, everything you need to know about Tory can be summed up by the centrepiece of his campaign platform....SmartTrack.

Want to know more....ask rather than making false predictions about what I might say.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Ok...we need to shut down your straw man pronto.

I am not a "NOW" person, and I'm not an NDP'er either. So putting up a false image of "me" (whom you know zero about) and providing your anecdotle evidence is just your way of deflecting the need to face the indisputable shortcomings of your man Tory.

I didn't say you were one of those people; I was just lumping you in with them while I bashed them at the same time
I'll apologize if you felt I was being rather too general and unfairly painting with too broad a brush.

You can say black is white if you like, but it is me who is being specific when I say It was Tory who support Ford. You can pretend that can be whitewashed away by saying it was a "mistake", but it wasn't a mistake...but Tory isn't that stupid or that careless. There's a fundamental reason he supported Ford, and there's fundamental reason he worked for that radio station. And those fundamentals have not changed.

Before you said you don't even know who John Tory is and now you know that "he isn't that stupid or careless" and that he only took a show on 1010 because he's right wing. I dunno, man. 10s of 1000s of people in the city were that careless and they learned that lesson. I agree that Tory is smarter than most and should have known better but he's hardly the only right winger who jumped on that bandwagon. How many Bay Street/Board of Trade types made Ford donations in 2010 but not this time? I'd LOVE to compare those lists (if I had the time) but I suspect there were plenty of people, prominent smart people, who made the same mistake.

Personally, if you'd asked me a year ago I'd probably say I was 60/40 in favour of Tory over Chow. In February, I'd have reversed that because she came out strong and he didn't. Today, I'm more like 80/20 Tory but if she somehow won, I wouldn't be heading for the liquor cabinet.

And to continue to be specific, everything you need to know about Tory can be summed up by the centrepiece of his campaign platform....SmartTrack.

At the micro level, there are many issues with SmartTrack. At the macro level, I have no problem with it. It's basically an accelerated version of what the province is already doing and he is the ONLY candidate who seems to understand that it's not just about people getting on streetcars downtown; most people are going in and of out downtown everyday from the suburbs, and that includes both Toronto's suburbs and the 905.

Olivia couldn't care less about how someone gets from Markham down to the financial district; she seems sincerely concerned his secret goal is to bulldoze a neighbourhood and seems unaware (despite all her legit experience on the file) that details of routing get ironed out through a staff and engineering process, not at the mayoral (candidate) level.

So, you're right - that plan tells you a lot about him compared to the others.

 

[StatGeek]

I hate top say, but BOTH Chow AND Tory supporters here are being f*cken ridiculous. Both Ford and his nation is a special case and it's a disgrace to compare EITHER Tory or Chow or their supporters to them.

Tory is not like Ford. Tory is a generic conservative. There no real difference between him and a numerous of MP's in Ontario, especially southern Ontario. He's right-wing, but try to be centre enough to not turn off the majority so they can win an election. Normally giving benefit of the doubt to business. Will claim to be the guardian of the purse but will not have a problem of throwing pork if it means it can make enough of his base to get elected. I don't necessary like Tory politics. But the Fords are a special case of scum that goes way beyond politics.

Chow supporters are not like Ford nation. They are left of centre, and have liberal philosophy of how to govern. The top two candidates politics wise is really opposite of Chow, so they are holding out hope that the only contender (even if it's a semi-contender) that has left of centre ideals can get a win and will not vote for right-winger who isn't a total scum bag. If Tory (or another left leaning candidate) was pushing more of Chow policies and is in the top two, I have confidence they would be more likely to support him. Ford nation on the other hand view Ford as a god. Even if somebody agrees with 95% of what Ford stands for, they call him a trader or "a liberal" for disagree with 5%. What's the worse that could be said for Chow supporters "They still support her even though she ran a bad campaign" running a bad campaign sucks but it's forgettable. Compare what Ford nation ignores with Ford. Chow supporters stand for something, Ford nation doesn't even stand for anything, their philosophy change whenever Ford is shown to be a hypocrite on a subject.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

I hate top say, but BOTH Chow AND Tory supporters here are being f*cken ridiculous. Both Ford and his nation is a special case and it's a disgrace to compare EITHER Tory or Chow or their supporters to them.

Tory is not like Ford. Tory is a generic conservative. There no real difference between him and a numerous of MP's in Ontario, especially southern Ontario. He's right-wing, but try to be centre enough to not turn off the majority so they can win an election. Normally giving benefit of the doubt to business. Will claim to be the guardian of the purse but will not have a problem of throwing pork if it means it can make enough of his base to get elected. I don't necessary like Tory politics. But the Fords are a special case of scum that goes way beyond politics.

Chow supporters are not like Ford nation. They are left of centre, and have liberal philosophy of how to govern. The top two candidates politics wise is really opposite of Chow, so they are holding out hope that the only contender (even if it's a semi-contender) that has left of centre ideals can get a win and will not vote for right-winger who isn't a total scum bag. If Tory (or another left leaning candidate) was pushing more of Chow policies and is in the top two, I have confidence they would be more likely to support him. Ford nation on the other hand view Ford as a god. Even if somebody agrees with 95% of what Ford stands for, they call him a trader or "a liberal" for disagree with 5%. What's the worse that could be said for Chow supporters "They still support her even though she ran a bad campaign" running a bad campaign sucks but it's forgettable. Compare what Ford nation ignores with Ford. Chow supporters stand for something, Ford nation doesn't even stand for anything, their philosophy change whenever Ford is shown to be a hypocrite on a subject.

+1. I had a less sardonic / cynical take on this rant a couple of days ago, but I think I like your version better.

Freshcutgrass -- c'mon, man. You're not NDP. You're not NOW. You're just a complete and total apolitical centrist who thinks Chow is the centrist candidate? Pshaw. As for your buddy who voted for Ford due to a right-wing radio host? The radio host has said sorry by running against Ford. A big chunk of my friends have said sorry for their Ford 2010 vote by voting for someone else. Ford is NOT normal politics. Viva the anti-Ford vote.