[freshcutgrass]

The only reason the subway extension is happening, is because Council voted to cover the extra cost to build it. If the City changes its mind on funding it, then it reverts back to what is already funded...the LRT. The province couldn't stop this from happening, and I doubt they would pull the money they already committed to. Their only other option would be to fully fund the subway, which I doubt would happen.

It doesn't matter what any mayoral candidate thinks...it would take Council voting to reopen the issue, and then to pass it with a majority vote.

This is another reason why I like candidates like John Tory and Karen Stintz; they don't want to reopen this debate again. Both are pushing for a Relief Line as the top transit project. To me, that is smart and forward thinking.

If they are so smart, why is Chow already $1 billion ahead of them on funding it? ha ha

 

[jml]

Costs too much

Truly bizarre that we've gotten to a place where people are worried the NDP will spend too little.

 

[the lemur]

How do you come to the conclusion that tory does not care enough

Because he generally isn't saying anything that the others aren't and/or he's waiting for them to raise the subject. On another level, he doesn't really have a presence in municipal affairs unless a position becomes available, once every few years or so.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Because he generally isn't saying anything that the others aren't and/or he's waiting for them to raise the subject. On another level, he doesn't really have a presence in municipal affairs unless a position becomes available, once every few years or so.

All these years, and poor old Tory still hasn't learned the difference between earning something, and just having it given to you. That's what a life of being "appointed" to your jobs gives you.

He really thinks he can rely on cultivating a perception that he's a nice, reasonable or sensible guy. That's why I can't figure out why the prov would "appoint" him to the Ontario Place revitalization panel. We need creative thinking people, and John Tory is easily the least creative human to have ever been born.

 

[the lemur]

All these years, and poor old Tory still hasn't learned the difference between earning something, and just having it given to you. That's what a life of being "appointed" to your jobs gives you.

He really thinks he can rely on cultivating a perception that he's a nice, reasonable or sensible guy. That's why I can't figure out why the prov would "appoint" him to the Ontario Place revitalization panel. We need creative thinking people, and John Tory is easily the least creative human to have ever been born.

He's also seriously out of touch with most voters, so his approach is to borrow ideas and throw them out there to see what sticks.

 

[BurlOak]

She's saying that the replacement for the SRT is better off being a 7-stop extension of the Eglinton LRT line than a 3-stop extension of the B/D subway line...and she's right. And since transit does not begin and end with "subways, subways, subways", the extra funding already committed to should go to other issues that require funding (like much needed increased service on bus routes).

Let's not forget that going back to the LRT plan might save us more than $1 billion, as the City was on the hook for anything over that estimate, and it has been suggested that it could easily double in the long run.

Did she really say that the SRT and Eglinton would be connected. I guess she realizes that the ridership would be so high that Eglinton would have to be elevated.

I think she might be getting my vote.

 

[edmundoconnor]

If there is an election before October …

If the Ontario Liberals are returned with a majority in such an election …

If a pro-LRT mayor is elected …

… I would still not count out an LRT coming to pass, sooner rather than later. Whoever becomes mayor (assuming it isn't Ford) will have a democratic mandate to enact their vision. All the candidates, whatever their preferred option, have made no secret of their preferred option, and voters will be very aware of their positions when they go to the polls.

Without the money from Toronto, the extension falls apart. It is a tripartite agreement. If any of the partners walk away, or withhold funds, the extension never gets built. Period. The province may hold hostage its funding, but so can Toronto.

While the Tories may have been able to get away with the John Baird f-off school of thought regarding transit when they had no seats in Toronto, significant back-pedalling on funding is unlikely. They have seats in Toronto now, and would like to keep them. They would like more. They could spin the transfer of the funds from Scarborough to the Relief Line fairly easily. Snatching the money away altogether from Scarborough and/or Sheppard LRT is very difficult to spin positively.

The point is that if a pro-LRT direction is chosen by mayor and council, it's in everyone's best interests to get along. Never underestimate the magnetic appeal of photo-ops of hard hats, shovels in the ground, and grins everywhere.

 

[edmundoconnor]

I haven't seen Chow saying the Scarborough LRT would through-run with Eglinton LRT. Can someone please point me toward the source? Thanks!

 

[newearthling]

Former TTC head calls transit debate "ludicrous"
David Gunn says the politicians and mayoral candidates should leave transit planning to the experts
Posted on 3/24/2014 5:02:00 PM by Justine Lewkowicz

A former TTC head says it is "ludicrous" the way the transit debate in Toronto is being politicized.

It's been a hot topic among the mayoral candidates ahead of this year's election.

But David Gunn, who is now retired and living on Cape Breton Island, is criticizing the candidates, as well as current politicians, over their transit plans and ideas.

"They don't know what the hell they're talking about, most of them," he says. "They've turned subways and streetcars into religions - there are Sunnis and Shiites."

Gunn was the chief general manager of the TTC from 1995 to 1999. He was later the president of Amtrak, the U.S. passenger rail service, and has held top transit jobs in New York City, Washington and Boston.

He says the choice of mode of transit in a particular part of the city should be based on an expert analysis of ridership.

"The planning should be done by professionals, people who actually know the economics," he says.

Gunn's priority would be to create a single, "competent" organization that plans, builds and operates transit in Toronto.

"The first thing you have to do is to have one person in charge of everything," he says, rather than the current split between the TTC and Metrolinx.

"If you want Metrolinx to be in charge, give them the TTC, give them the whole ball of wax."

And then, he says, you let the experts solve the transit problem.

"You don't make those decisions off the top of your head in the middle of a political campaign," Gunn says. "It's voodoo transit planning."

 

[freshcutgrass]

Did she really say that the SRT and Eglinton would be connected.

She gave no details about that. I didn't mean to imply she did. While I like the idea that the replacement of the SRT should be contiguous with either the subway or Eglinton LRT, it may very well end up being a three-way transfer at Kennedy if the subway extension reverts back to LRT.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It would have doubled the ridership on the line and get you from Weston Road to Sheppard East in 35 minutes or so. But, no they had to torpedo that one just because Ford made it happened (Yes he agreed with Scarborough having an LRT merged to the Crosstown)

Was this the surface right-of-way Eglinton Scarbrough Crosstown Light Rail Transit + the Scarborough Light Rail rapid transit option? If so, this setup would have been infeasible without full grade separation IIRC.

 

[BurlOak]

Former TTC head calls transit debate "ludicrous"
Gunn's priority would be to create a single, "competent" organization that plans, builds and operates transit in Toronto.

"The first thing you have to do is to have one person in charge of everything," he says, rather than the current split between the TTC and Metrolinx.

"If you want Metrolinx to be in charge, give them the TTC, give them the whole ball of wax."

And then, he says, you let the experts solve the transit problem.

It sounds like he is endorsing the Hudak plan.

 

[Solid Snake]

Without the money from Toronto, the extension falls apart. It is a tripartite agreement. If any of the partners walk away, or withhold funds, the extension never gets built. Period. The province may hold hostage its funding, but so can Toronto.

Couldn't be farther from the truth. You keep forgetting that without the funding from City hall and the Feds, Murray was going to take the subway ball and run with it. Without funding from the Feds and the City, the Provincial Liberals would go back to the subway plan in the old SRT corridor.PERIOD.

They campaign on it and won the riding based on that. They made it clear more than once the LRT was done.

While the Tories may have been able to get away with the John Baird f-off school of thought regarding transit when they had no seats in Toronto, significant back-pedalling on funding is unlikely. They have seats in Toronto now, and would like to keep them. They would like more. They could spin the transfer of the funds from Scarborough to the Relief Line fairly easily. Snatching the money away altogether from Scarborough and/or Sheppard LRT is very difficult to spin positively.

You underestimate how everything in the end is about politics. Why did Murray took the subway ball and ran with it against City council's preferred route they had voted for at council? Because at the end of the day, it's really "who has the money, that has the power" and the province made it clear with the Murray subway plan.

It was politics that justified their behavior...why? Because the Liberals had a score to settle against Rob Ford and The Conservative in Ottawa. They didn't care about the needs of Scarborough, it was all about scoring cheap political points against their right wing enemies Ford and Harper.

It backfired when against all odds, the Conservatives agreed to pitch in. They improvised a new infrastructure program that didn't existed yet (or was in the works) as a pretext to announce in advance that Toronto would get subway money, without pissing off Montreal, Vancouver and Calgary. Out of the goodness of their hearts? No, to remind Scarborough that the Conservatives gave them a subway and they saved them from Murray's half a** plan (Jab to the Liberals who got no credit for it) under Ford's leadership (to help their buddy). See where I'm going with this? It's political. Why on earth those same Conservative would give more money to help the an NDP mayor and a Liberal government that did nothing but criticize them, to revert back to LRT??? pfff

They would withdraw the money saying the new mayor and the Liberal government screw up big time (breached the contract because the project said "subway")and screwed them and they are welcome to re-apply through the infrastructure fund...*like everyone else*

Good luck using special channels in the future to ask special findings for Toronto because the Feds would never forget that one.

 

[ehlow]

He's endorsing that people who know what they're doing look at ridership numbers to determine which mode of transit works for that number of people and to determine whether full grade separation is required or not.

If you look at the projected ridership numbers you simply look at the range it falls under to determine the mode.

For example Eglinton is projected to have 5400 ppphd in 2031, well below the required 10,000 ppphd which is the minimum for full grade separation (subway).

http://thecrosstown.ca/the-project/reports/EglintonCrosstownLRTEnvironmentalProjectReport

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Couldn't be farther from the truth. You keep forgetting that without the funding from City hall and the Feds, Murray was going to take the subway ball and run with it. Without funding from the Feds and the City, the Provincial Liberals would go back to the subway plan in the old SRT corridor.PERIOD.

I don't think the TTC would sign off on this route. There would be significant operational challenges if this alignment were to be picked. Namely the impossibly small curve radii. The curves radii would be need to be significantly widened (probably with a tunnel) or smaller vehicles (*caugh* light rail *caugh*) will need to be used on the SRT corridor.

The only possible routes I see are Heavy Rapid Rapid Transit via. McCowan or Light Rail Rapid Transit via the SRT corridor. Somehow I doubt that Murray's Heavy Rail Rapid Transit via SRT corridor idea was very well thought out. Probably something scribbled on a napkin hours before the announcement.