SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Please, let him push that as much as he wants, it can only help. Sure, he shouldn't turn a deaf ear to other improvements, but anything that sounds like it should have been done 25 years ago is fine by me.
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- Thread starter SJD_Toronto
- Start date
Please, let him push that as much as he wants, it can only help. Sure, he shouldn't turn a deaf ear to other improvements, but anything that sounds like it should have been done 25 years ago is fine by me.
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Has she, though? Thrown her support behind it, I mean. I missed this. Which is what I get for getting my news from the Globe and Mail and BBC.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
What do you want him to say about the DRL? I feel like any candidate talking about the DRL at this stage is pandering, the only thing that will happen in the next 4 years are preliminary studies and EAs, which I find safe under either Tory or Chow.
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Another thing I have no conception of: What is Tory's thinking on the issue of the raised Gardiner Express-ly a waste of money-way?
ehlow
Senior Member
It's hilarious because both campaigns have accused each other of not supporting the DRL enough, yet both candidates have said they support it.
But you can never make those who are committed to be against a given candidate happy:
First, they'll accuse the candidate of not supporting X.
Next, if the candidate clearly states supports X, they'll immediately accuse them of "flip flopping" or "lying" about it, then follow up with an attack on their character by saying they can't believe anything they say.
Third step, continue denying the candidate supports X forever. Loudly proclaiming that the candidate is against X everywhere.
Examples: Chow supporters refuse to believe that Tory supports DRL subway and the Sheppard & Finch LRTs, even though he has clearly said it repeatedly.
Tory could be digging the DRL tunnel himself, and these people still won't believe that he supports it, because they seem to have committed to believing that, no matter what.
salsa
Senior Member
I'm not gonna defend Chow's shenanigans, but I hope you realize that Tory has been a lot worse at misrepresenting his opponent. As you know, Tory was once a stanch supporter of the DRL, whereas Chow at the time thought it shouldn't be an election issue, that it will be build eventually, etc. Her position was widely misunderstood and poorly explained (and I blame Chow for that), therefore she was accused of not supporting the DRL. Chow later clarified, saying something like: (which I paraphrase) "I absolutely support it, but I'm not gonna go promise things that I don't know where the funding comes from. Nothing is going to break ground for another four, five, years, six years, but I will immediately begin the engineering studies...".
But of course, Tory still continued to push his message about her "apparent refusal to commit to a downtown relief line" (his words). The Tory war room even set up a now defunct website for this very purpose: buildsubwayrelief.ca. That is, until he released the Smart Track plan, and suddenly he does a complete 180 and accuses Chow of supporting the relief line. "7 years not 17", ad nauseam. Actually, he knows that both numbers are disputed by Metrolinx and the chief planner. But hey, gotta follow the rhyme book.
The misrepresentations don't end there. In August he tries to use her support for the DRL to suggest to voters that she is more concerned about her own downtown area than the rest of the city. A map was released, titled "Olivia Chow's Transit Plan Avoids Toronto" (i.e the suburbs). I can't find it anymore, but the map included the relief line, which is very much in Toronto, and would definitely help suburban commuters. Sometimes he also used words like "her downtown-only subway line", or simply "her downtown relief line”. This is from the same guy who promised to end the downtown vs suburb rhetoric.
Oh, and then there's this:
What the hell prompted that? This was from August by the way, long before Chow did any of her NIMBY media stunts with the double tracking issues on the Stouffville line. Tory just keeps fabricating stuff as he goes along. This looks like something that would come from a Republican wingnut smear campaign. Actually, all of the transit news releases on his website sound more like a Harper or Fox News mouthpiece, full of half truths, and frequently using phrases like "NDP candidate Olivia Chow" (as seen above), "tax & spend career politician", "back-of-a-napkin scheme" (i.e Chow's bus plan), etc. Absolutely nauseating.
I wouldn't paint all Chow supporters with the same brush. I'm not that kind of supporter either, because I acknowledge that at least the LRT thing has been finally settled (only recently that is). Recall that Tory's earlier comments suggested that he would delay them indefinitely until the Smart Track is up and running. As for the DRL, I didn't even know he supported it until I did my extensive google search as I was writing this post. All I could find was this Toronto Star quote: "We’ll get to the downtown relief line, we’ll continue with the work on it, but we’ve got to proceed ahead with SmartTrack" (Sept 22, 2014). Ya, that's quite the support. By the way, the headline: Tory criticizes Chow over relief line, but says he still supports it. Hilarious! I guess my remaining concern now is that it could be further delayed or unfunded because of Smart Track, but we'll see. Ever since the Scarborough shit started, it's been abundantly clear that anyone who still pretends that the DRL is number one priority (other than Andy Byford) is lying.
As for your example, why don't you blame Tory for all this confusion? Why should I have to spend half an hour reading old news articles, just to figure out what is John Tory's changed position on something. He could have easily shut down that talking point by simply:
- Adding the LRTs and DRL on his transit map and policy papers
- Repeating his support for said transit lines during debates and press conferences, instead of just blathering on about Smart Track
- Stop blasting Chow for supporting it, or calling it a "downtown-only subway line"
- Stop pretending that SmartTrack is a good enough substitute for it, because it isn't
So to conclude, yes I agree that both campaigns have accused each other of not supporting the DRL. But please don't have sympathy for John Tory. He doesn't deserve it.
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JGHali
Active Member
He really doesn't deserve it, especially after his hackneyed "Twister" stunt which he used to attack Chow on the DRL:
http://torontoist.com/2014/04/john-tory-plays-twister/
http://torontoist.com/2014/04/john-tory-plays-twister/
GenerationW
Senior Member
Don't know who said it, but I do know Chow has promised to keep property tax increases at or under the rate of inflation.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
John Tory strikes me as the Mitt Romney of Canada.
adma
Superstar
And if he succeeds, the Toronto Mayoralty'll be his equivalent of the Massachusetts Governorship.
JGHali
Active Member
I'm pretty sure Chow has repeatedly said that she'd keep increases to "around" the rate of inflation.
nfitz
Superstar
Something that Rob Ford couldn't even accomplish!
leakywellington
New Member
Hey, just hopping on here to post a link to this petition. Invite Ari Goldkind to future debates (#LetAriDebate): https://www.change.org/p/toronto-mayoral-debates-invite-ari-goldkind-letaridebate.
Demands from other candidates have played a significant role in not having Ari there (e.g., the initial un-invitation to the York Woods Library Theatre debate at Jane/Finch), which is pretty nuts on its own. Also, given that he's really elevated the debates he's participated in (e.g., the fantastic Regent Park debate) and that he was polling at fourth (roughly at Soknacki/Stintz levels), there's good reason to take a closer look at this.
Regardless of who you support for mayor, if you agree that Ari should be in the debates—or just want to read what people are saying—take a look at the petition.
Demands from other candidates have played a significant role in not having Ari there (e.g., the initial un-invitation to the York Woods Library Theatre debate at Jane/Finch), which is pretty nuts on its own. Also, given that he's really elevated the debates he's participated in (e.g., the fantastic Regent Park debate) and that he was polling at fourth (roughly at Soknacki/Stintz levels), there's good reason to take a closer look at this.
Regardless of who you support for mayor, if you agree that Ari should be in the debates—or just want to read what people are saying—take a look at the petition.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
leakywellington
New Member
Thanks for the reply and suggestion. I think someone else beat me to it actually, and it's up here: http://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/2jj6lq/petitioning_toronto_mayoral_debates_invite_ari