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WislaHD said:
I can't imagine progressive conservatives feel they would be represented by the Brown-led Conservatives.
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It's hard to imagine how many of those further right would be able to support Patrick Brown. After all, if you support a bigot, you are a bigot.

It must alienate a lot of people who are politically right but don't share Browns anti-gay bigotry or anti-abortion agenda. With the Liberal's recent oscillation to the left, and the NDP being ... well the NDP ... where do they park their vote?
 
nfitz said:
It's hard to imagine how many of those further right would be able to support Patrick Brown. After all, if you support a bigot, you are a bigot.

It must alienate a lot of people who are politically right but don't share Browns anti-gay bigotry or anti-abortion agenda. With the Liberal's recent oscillation to the left, and the NDP being ... well the NDP ... where do they park their vote?
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With the Liberals, like in the last election.

The general populace don't take notice that the Liberals have swung a bit to the left. In my area of the city there are plenty of the progressive 'red tory' conservatives and they mostly felt comfortable voting Liberals last election.

It's indeed ostracizing, on the federal level as well. My father who has hard prejudice against the left (he escaped commie Poland) has even told me that he is considering voting for Mulcair and the NDP in the federal election for the first time since coming to Canada.
 
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nfitz said:
It's hard to imagine how many of those further right would be able to support Patrick Brown. After all, if you support a bigot, you are a bigot.

It must alienate a lot of people who are politically right but don't share Browns anti-gay bigotry or anti-abortion agenda. With the Liberal's recent oscillation to the left, and the NDP being ... well the NDP ... where do they park their vote?
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I have not seen any polling on the abortion issue lately. What percentage of the population thinks its ok to abort a baby in the eight month of pregancy - immediately before the birth occurs.

I would guess that only a small minority agree with the current pro choice environment - the key is that most people still think the law bans abortion beyond +/-20 weeks. Ignorance is bliss.

Anyway, this is a federal issue, so I don't think it will play a big role in the upcoming campaign. Except for some who want to fearmonger.
 
BurlOak said:
I have not seen any polling on the abortion issue lately. What percentage of the population thinks its ok to abort a baby in the eight month of pregancy - immediately before the birth occurs.
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None I would think. Not sure the relevance - no party supports that, nor does CMA or OMA. That's long past viability, and even in the case of life-or-death of the mother, the baby can be delivered

Can we avoid straw men?

BurlOak said:
Anyway, this is a federal issue, so I don't think it will play a big role in the upcoming campaign. Except for some who want to fearmonger.
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It is an issue though. Patrick Brown has admitted that he is an extreme bigot with his anti-gay views. He has also shown that his views about women are not socially acceptable by wanting to impose Victorian views about early-term abortion on them.

While the provincial leader may not have much sway on federal policy, what kind of person would support a bigot?
 
Remember the Big Blue Machine? They had a series of moderate leaders, especially Bill Davis. The moment they took a hard right, they got knocked down to third party status. Brown is even more conservative than Hudak.
 
Ontario is a lot more conservative than it's ever been. At least if you spend the majority of your time talking to newish Canadians like I do. And besides, whenever the Federal Liberals are in power, Ontario's got the PC's in office.
 
Videodrome said:
Remember the Big Blue Machine? They had a series of moderate leaders, especially Bill Davis. The moment they took a hard right, they got knocked down to third party status. Brown is even more conservative than Hudak.
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Not quite "the moment." In 1985, the PCs were led by the right-wing Frank Miller and they won more seats than any other party, though the Liberals actually won the popular vote. Bob Rae signed an accord with David Peterson and allowed him to become premier, which lasted for 2 years. The Peterson government was so popular that in 1987 the NDP lost seats (Peterson got all the credit) and the PCs were reduced to third place. The PC leader at the time was the more moderate Larry Grossman.
 
urbandreamer said:
Brown for the Wynne in 2018 imo. It may be unpopular to say so on UT, but almost everyone I've asked says they are sick of the Liberals.

Not that I agree with them.
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People were saying they were sick of the Liberals before this past election, even many of the people who ultimately voted for them (including me). Most people could just not stomach Tim Hudak, and Brown is even worse. If someone like Christine Elliot had been at the head of the PCs our legislature would look very different right now.
 
urbandreamer said:
Brown for the Wynne in 2018 imo. It may be unpopular to say so on UT, but almost everyone I've asked says they are sick of the Liberals.

Not that I agree with them.
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So sick of them that they'd vote for this troglodyte. Can't imagine a lot of people are ready to cut off their noses.
 
King of Kensington said:
Not quite "the moment." In 1985, the PCs were led by the right-wing Frank Miller and they won more seats than any other party, though the Liberals actually won the popular vote. Bob Rae signed an accord with David Peterson and allowed him to become premier, which lasted for 2 years. The Peterson government was so popular that in 1987 the NDP lost seats (Peterson got all the credit) and the PCs were reduced to third place. The PC leader at the time was the more moderate Larry Grossman.
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I stand corrected in that case. Of course, I was only three years old in 1985...

My point is that despite how hated the Libs were last time, they still won a majority.

People were saying they were sick of the Liberals before this past election, even many of the people who ultimately voted for them (including me). Most people could just not stomach Tim Hudak, and Brown is even worse. If someone like Christine Elliot had been at the head of the PCs our legislature would look very different right now.
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This. I would gladly vote PC if the leader wan't a caveman...
 
I am beginning to question whether strategically voting for Liberals this federal election is the right way to go about strategic voting. Depending on orange momentum and Mulcair's popularity, the NDP may actually have a better chance.
 
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