[AlvinofDiaspar]

Exactly. So they slow walk it and run on it next election. They don't have to get a shovel in the ground till May 2022. And if they don't their voters won't penalize them substantially. Do you envisions guys like OneCity voting Liberal because Ford didn't start the DRL? And that's actually a person who cares about transit.

I think you (and several others here) are really underestimating what the SSE will do for Ford with his suburban base. Even if it's in Mississauga. It'll be evidence he can deliver as promised. And that's all they need. The talking point after that will be, "The Left talked about the DRL for decades and didn't deliver. Ford will do it next term."

SSE this term. DRL and Yonge North next term. Only LRTs I see are Eglinton East and West. No more, as long as these guys are in power. They will put all their focus on subways and GO.

Nope, I don't really underestimate what SSE does for Ford - I see it as something that works like "promise kept" for his base as you mentioned. And honestly, at least a 3 stop extension is more useful (if pricey for what it does).

AoD

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I want to see Doug's plan for getting service to Niagara, Barrie and Kitchener. And what is his plan for Milton and the bowmanville extension? And when will weekend service come to Stouffville.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I might be saying something crazy here, but I just want the Scarborough Subway Extension and Sheppard East (and maybe West) Subway Extension(s) to be built as soon as possible so that there would less projects that would get in the way of the priority and necessary projects from being completed (Relief Line Mount Dennis-Don Mills, Regional Express Rail, Yonge North, and Waterfront LRTs). Of course, with these 2(3) projects finished, it might open the door to even more crazy projects that definitely should not be prioritized (Steeles Subway, Kipling Subway, etc).

You're absolutely right Leo. Build both subways and get it out of the way, we've spent too long on this. And they need to find a way to elevate both subways.

 

[steveintoronto]

Except that Il Duce in another form is now the premier. You'd reminisce the good old days when you have one who can at least string out a coherent sentence.

AoD

They'll be diktats!

From the Beaverton: (essential reading)
https://www.thebeaverton.com/2018/06/good-fucking-luck-ontario/

 

[hw621]

They'll be diktats!

From the Beaverton: (essential reading)
https://www.thebeaverton.com/2018/06/good-fucking-luck-ontario/

This is hilarious.

 

[APTA-2048]

Ford voters don't care about the DRL.

But they somehow expect the downtown to care about the SSE? You talk about trying to understand Ford voters position, which is fair, but at what point does reality get in the way of the "downtown has enough subways" trope? The DRL needs to be built and so should the SSE. But one can't accuse people of not caring about one's project, while proceeding to not care about someone else's.

 

[kEiThZ]

I might be saying something crazy here, but I just want the Scarborough Subway Extension and Sheppard East (and maybe West) Subway Extension(s) to be built as soon as possible so that there would less projects that would get in the way of the priority and necessary projects from being completed (Relief Line Mount Dennis-Don Mills, Regional Express Rail, Yonge North, and Waterfront LRTs). Of course, with these 2(3) projects finished, it might open the door to even more crazy projects that definitely should not be prioritized (Steeles Subway, Kipling Subway, etc).

I've argued this before too. SSE and Sheppard are so political because everyone in Scarborough sees them as unfinished projects, because they stopped short of Scarborough's borders. Once they are done, transit will be far less politicized, and you'll probably a lot of Scarborough transit users pushing for the DRL. I wouldn't worry about asking for a subway on Steeles. Once Sheppard and SSE are done, all those Scarborough residents will be the ones complaining all about how crowded the subway system is.

 

[kEiThZ]

But they somehow expect the downtown to care about the SSE? You talk about trying to understand Ford voters position, which is fair, but at what point does reality get in the way of the "downtown has enough subways" trope? The DRL needs to be built and so should the SSE. But one can't accuse people of not caring about one's project, while proceeding to not care about someone else's.

You're not wrong. I hate that subway = fast transit for most of this city. And that's why I've long argued that we needed to build regional rail so that people would understand that when you have to travel far and get there fast, you don't take a subway. Instead, the narrative has taken root that subways are fast and reliable and anything else is a compromise. Part of me hopes that Metrolinx will somehow be able to sell Ford the idea that RER is almost like a subway for much cheaper. But that's probably hoping for too much.

If you don't want money wasted on suburban subways, then you have to find a way to address those commutes. This was always the flaw in the thinking of the Millers, Munros, etc. They fail to see past what subways mean to the people that want them. Go to the root of the problem. It's not subways these people want. It's fast, reliable transit that is fully plugged into the core. The Liberals had 15 years in power to figure this out. They and all the municipal politicians allowed this to decay into a subway vs. LRT fight. I'm not going to say, it's richly deserved, because I'm not happy with the outcome. But I am going to say, it's not unexpected.

Here's my personal take. I would prioritize RER and full GO-TTC integration over everything else. Including the DRL. Why? Because that would end the most toxic politicization of transit that we see. People from Scarborough and Etobicoke would have shorter commutes. There'd be less bitterness about the RT being converted into LRT instead of subway. The 905 would be more plugged into the 416, sharing the same transit system. You'd get a lot more regional cohesion.

That's not going to happen though. And after Ford delivers the SSE, we'll all be back here talking about Sheppard in 2022.

 

[nfitz]

And after Ford delivers the SSE ...

Seems unlikely, given his track record. I expect his own caucus will turf him well before shovels hit the ground. He's not exactly known as a team player, and he serves at the pleasure of the caucus. His utility to them ended yesterday, and they know it (though he probably doesn't! )

 

[kEiThZ]

Seems unlikely, given his track record. I expect his own caucus will turf him well before shovels hit the ground. He's not exactly known as a team player, and he serves at the pleasure of the caucus. His utility to them ended yesterday, and they know it (though he probably doesn't! )

Do they not want to win again in 4 years? If they really believe he's the reason they won yesterday, it defies logic that they'll turf him.

 

[nfitz]

Do they not want to win again in 4 years? If they really believe he's the reason they won yesterday, it defies logic that they'll turf him.

It entirely depends on where his public standing is, in four years. Or four weeks. Look how quickly Patrick Brown was gone when it was clear there were allegations of sexual impropriety.

With several ongoing investigation, including the 407-ETR data, and with lawsuits flying about that at best document his incompetent management of Deco completely wiping out millions of dollars of value, and at worst shifting all the value from the company, to his personal holdings - which could mean he's cheated other shareholders (i.e. Renata Ford) out of their investment ... who knows what the future holds.

It's been a spectacular circus of fail since Brown's sudden departure, and somehow I doubt we've seen the end of it yet. I doubt we'll reach Rob Ford levels of epic tragedy, but I wouldn't be surprised if caucus decides he's too much baggage well before the next election, when a competent leader like Christine Elliott could easily lead them into a second term.

I doubt very little of hit hinges on transit promises though, even if he does, as expected, kill the Hurontario and Finch West LRT lines. Will he kill Hamilton is more of a question - given Hamilton went solidly NDP while Mississauga and Etobicoke went solidly blue.

 

[Rainforest]

Seems unlikely, given his track record. I expect his own caucus will turf him well before shovels hit the ground. He's not exactly known as a team player, and he serves at the pleasure of the caucus. His utility to them ended yesterday, and they know it (though he probably doesn't! )

If so, then the caucus would be much wiser not electing him as a leader in the first place. That choice almost costed them the elections.

Once he got in .. turfing the leader mid-term after winning a majority isn't impossible but would be highly unusual.

 

[nfitz]

If so, then the caucus would be much wiser not electing him as a leader in the first place.

Caucus didn't elect him. As far as I recall, most didn't even support him.

Once he got in .. turfing the leader mid-term after winning a majority isn't impossible but would be highly unusual.

I think it's clear we are in most unusual times.

 

[kEiThZ]

Caucus didn't elect him. As far as I recall, most didn't even support him.

I think you're projecting your desire. Strangely enough on a party you dislike and you'd never vote for. You would never have predicted a Ford victory. And now you're going to claim that you know his fate as leader, and understand the motivations of the caucus of a party you don't care for? Come on man. Have some humility.

I think it's clear we are in most unusual times.

Turbulent perhaps. Unusual? Hardly. This is simply a re-run of the 1995 election when the NDP collapsed and the conservatives came to power, with the public leaning right over fiscal concerns and anti-incumbent sentiment running high. It's just the Liberals turn this time.

There will be scandals. And his bit with the sister-in-law will blow up. But unless the cops are slapping cuffs on him, I seriously doubt he's going anywhere. He delivered more seats in Toronto that the Conservatives have had federally of provincially in nearly a generation. They won't risk that on a whim. Let's be honest. Nobody but a Ford could have delivered this many seats in the 416. An argument could be made that nobody else could have delivered this many seats in the GTA for the Conservatives.

And the shenanigans before the election? Everything gets forgotten when your party wins and you get a nice cabinet post with a rental apartment in Toronto and a chauffeur.

 

[OneCity]

Seems unlikely, given his track record. I expect his own caucus will turf him well before shovels hit the ground. He's not exactly known as a team player, and he serves at the pleasure of the caucus. His utility to them ended yesterday, and they know it (though he probably doesn't! )

Can we hold you to these mad statements? The guy just won a majority for a party the hasn't seen success in decades. It more likely he gets another 4 years to follow. His utility for the party actually just began... Rob did crack and likely would have been Mayor again... Doug isn't going anywhere without a cut and dry murder charge.