[nfitz]

I think you're projecting your desire. Strangely enough on a party you dislike and you'd never vote for.

Not sure why you'd assume that; I've supported the PCs before - though not provincially but I was actually warming to Patrick Brown's surprisingly progressive platform.

And now you're going to claim that you know his fate as leader, and understand the motivations of the caucus of a party you don't care for? Come on man. Have some humility.

Not sure why you need to comment on my gender here!

Can we hold you to these mad statements?

"He's not exactly known as a team player" is a mad statement?

This isn't a normal situation, with a reasonably competent experienced politician. Look at his disastrous history as a Toronto councillor, where he failed abysmally in his pet project at Woodbine, and then became a joke with his failed attempts to influence the city through this drug-addled brother.

I'm hardly out-of-sync with even right-wing opinions of him. The right-leaning Globe and Mail for the first time in recent history failed to endorse the Conservatives or Progressive Conservatives simply saying that "Mr. Ford is unfit to be premier" and "We all know this populist chancer too well. Unleashed by the constraints of the campaign, Mr. Ford will return to the form we remember from Toronto’s experience." and only a few days ago noted "that Mr. Ford was a drug dealer as a young man, something he denies".

It's disingenuous to pretend that my main-stream views of quite possibly the most incompetent and unqualified Premier in provincial history are "mad statements"!

If we've ever had doubts that an incoming Premier with a majority government may not complete their first term - this is the one.

 

[kEiThZ]

If we've ever had doubts that an incoming Premier with a majority government may not complete their first term - this is the one.

Your FUD is irrelevant to a discussion about transit plans and policy. Can you take this nonsense to the politics thread and stop trying to derail discussion here?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If so, then the caucus would be much wiser not electing him as a leader in the first place. That choice almost costed them the elections.

Once he got in .. turfing the leader mid-term after winning a majority isn't impossible but would be highly unusual.

It happend in australia multiple times. But Randy Hillier owns this now, if Ford fails, his political career is over.

 

[syn]

Not sure why you'd assume that; I've supported the PCs before - though not provincially but I was actually warming to Patrick Brown's surprisingly progressive platform.

Not sure why you need to comment on my gender here!

"He's not exactly known as a team player" is a mad statement?

This isn't a normal situation, with a reasonably competent experienced politician. Look at his disastrous history as a Toronto councillor, where he failed abysmally in his pet project at Woodbine, and then became a joke with his failed attempts to influence the city through this drug-addled brother.

I'm hardly out-of-sync with even right-wing opinions of him. The right-leaning Globe and Mail for the first time in recent history failed to endorse the Conservatives or Progressive Conservatives simply saying that "Mr. Ford is unfit to be premier" and "We all know this populist chancer too well. Unleashed by the constraints of the campaign, Mr. Ford will return to the form we remember from Toronto’s experience." and only a few days ago noted "that Mr. Ford was a drug dealer as a young man, something he denies".

It's disingenuous to pretend that my main-stream views of quite possibly the most incompetent and unqualified Premier in provincial history are "mad statements"!

If we've ever had doubts that an incoming Premier with a majority government may not complete their first term - this is the one.

I think he'll complete his term, but you're right that the doubts are not unfounded.

We already have two or three major scandals on the go, and he hasn't even taken power yet lol.

Earlier it was mentioned that the SSE and Sheppard should be finished first to make the DRL more palatable. I don't think things will work out that way.

When SSE and Sheppard are finished, other Scarborough residents and people in other areas of the city will wonder why they don't 'deserve' subways too. Don't people in Etobicoke north and Rexdale deserve subways?

Building transit based almost entirely on identity politics and expecting a rational outcome doesn't make much sense. As long as the 'downtown elites have enough subways' narrative is put forth, there will always be an area of the city demanding more.

The unfortunate reality is not that we want the DRL in 20 years, we needed it 20 years ago.

I hope one day the pendulum swings back to sensible, evidence based transit planning.

 

[nfitz]

Your FUD is irrelevant to a discussion about transit plans and policy. Can you take this nonsense to the politics thread and stop trying to derail discussion here?

What's a FUD?

Your point was that "after Ford completes the SSE". There are so many reasons this makes no sense - do you really expect Ford to still be around in a decade - he'd have to win at least 2 more elections.

This discussion is about politics and transit. Discussing the likely short-term demise of a leader who is well known for his lack of intelligence, corruption, and anti-transit views IS the discussion.

Though perhaps this entirely unnecessary thread should be closed, given the election is over, and there's little point in rehashing the various promises. Only one matters now, and we'll now see if the PCs meet their various promises while in opposition of cancelling LRT lines, getting rid of streetcars, privatizing bus services, and building undersused subway lines to every suburban wasteland.

 

[BurlOak]

The unfortunate reality is not that we want the DRL in 20 years, we needed it 20 years ago.

20 years ago the TTC said we don't need the DRL.
10 years ago David Miller said that an on-street LRT (from Seneca to Pape) would suffice. Still without a DRL short, but the intent of people transferring to B-D and then to Yonge.
Is was only when Rob Ford became mayor that he got the focus back on subways. Without Rob, the DRL would be starting construction now as an on-street LRT.

 

[nfitz]

10 years ago David Miller said that an on-street LRT (from Seneca to Pape) would suffice. Still without a DRL short, but the intent of people transferring to B-D and then to Yonge.
Is was only when Rob Ford became mayor that he got the focus back on subways. Without Rob, the DRL would be starting construction now as an on-street LRT.

I don't recall David Miller saying this - do you have a link. It was an option in the uncompleted Don Mills rapid transit study that Rob Ford cancelled, but so was higher-order options, as well as doing nothing.

I do recall however Giambrone commenting while he was the TTC Chair under David Miller that they'd likely have to start looking at the DRL around 2018 or so. The DRL studies started before Rob Ford - and he demonstrated his incompetence by doing little if anything to expedite them and keep them on track.

Also recall that the DRL was part of the 2008 Big Move. Recall also that in January 2009 - two years before Ford - that City Council voted (see item 3.l) that "Metrolinx be requested to prioritize the Downtown Relief Line within its 15-year plan" and that "The Toronto Transit Commission be requested to proceed with the studies necessary to construct the Downtown Relief Line".

I'm not sure why you think the DRL came out of Ford. There were long discussions here about the DRL plans before Ford announced he would run for mayor! For example, read the almost 3 years of discussion in https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/ttc-relief-line-south-in-design.6155/ before Ford was elected.

Quite frankly, given we were 7 years into the DRL debate by the time that Ford left office, the amount of progress during his 4 years on the DRL was poor.

 

[BurlOak]

I don't recall David Miller saying this - do you have a link. It was an option in the uncompleted Don Mills rapid transit study that Rob Ford cancelled, but so was higher-order options, as well as doing nothing.

I do recall however Giambrone commenting while he was the TTC Chair under David Miller that they'd likely have to start looking at the DRL around 2018 or so. The DRL studies started before Rob Ford - and he demonstrated his incompetence by doing little if anything to expedite them and keep them on track.

Also recall that the DRL was part of the 2008 Big Move. Recall also that in January 2009 - two years before Ford - that City Council voted (see item 3.l) that "Metrolinx be requested to prioritize the Downtown Relief Line within its 15-year plan" and that "The Toronto Transit Commission be requested to proceed with the studies necessary to construct the Downtown Relief Line".

I'm not sure why you think the DRL came out of Ford. There were long discussions here about the DRL plans before Ford announced he would run for mayor! For example, read the almost 3 years of discussion in https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/ttc-relief-line-south-in-design.6155/ before Ford was elected.

Quite frankly, given we were 7 years into the DRL debate by the time that Ford left office, the amount of progress during his 4 years on the DRL was poor.

Sorry, I didn't see the DRL in the invisible ink on this graphic.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Transit City was a light rail network plan only. The Don Mills light rail line was to be a continuation of rapid transit north of Danforth all to way up past Steeles. Current plans call for the Relief Line to be heavy rail south of Danforth in phase one, but now phase two will replace the Don Mills light rail plan north of Danforth to Sheppard. What happens north of Sheppard still has to be decided upon in the future.

 

[TransitBart]

Transit City was a milquetoast plan as @BurlOak commented with a little something for everyone. The general tone as that we should be thrilled although it was a glass half-full. Miller was a true egalitarian.

I’d prefer to stretch and have some first-rate in place of half-assed. I’m glad that plan bit it and I like the current discussion. This was never going to be cheap if we didn’t want second best.

Remember. If you have to tell someone that you live in a world-class (very tired expression. Thank goodness we have not heard it in a while.) city you don’t. It’s like saying “I am am very good, or very smart.” No one says that. People say it about you or about your city, when you achieve it.

 

[nfitz]

Sorry, I didn't see the DRL in the invisible ink on this graphic.

That long predates Miller's push for the DRL. The council documents clearly show that in 2008 and 2009 that the Miller administration pushing for the DRL. Trying to pretend otherwise, and ignoring documents clearly accessible, simply shows your bias. I'm not sure what you think you might gain, by trying to falsely prove that Miller was opposed to the . Recall that the original March 2007 Transit City plan added 120 km of LRT by 2021. The Miller's administrations plans for the DRL were for it to open after the 7 (and later 8) proposed Transit City lines were complete. No, the DRL wasn't their first priority.

But can you imagine how much better transit would be in this city if we'd have gotten that 120 km of new transit lines by 2021? Instead we are on track for 20 km, with another 11 km in 2023. I don't see how voting in a party with a 33-year history of cutting, delaying, and cancelling transit will improve that.

 

[OneCity]

That long predates Miller's push for the DRL. The council documents clearly show that in 2008 and 2009 that the Miller administration pushing for the DRL. Trying to pretend otherwise, and ignoring documents clearly accessible, simply shows your bias. I'm not sure what you think you might gain, by trying to falsely prove that Miller was opposed to the . Recall that the original March 2007 Transit City plan added 120 km of LRT by 2021. The Miller's administrations plans for the DRL were for it to open after the 7 (and later 8) proposed Transit City lines were complete. No, the DRL wasn't their first priority.

But can you imagine how much better transit would be in this city if we'd have gotten that 120 km of new transit lines by 2021? Instead we are on track for 20 km, with another 11 km in 2023. I don't see how voting in a party with a 33-year history of cutting, delaying, and cancelling transit will improve that.

Unfortunately cutting corners in design of a plan comes with grave risks. And the risky plan fell apart on its own details. We are now moving toward lines people in the impacted area can fully support. You wont see a Leader running a campaign against the current lines and winning any support as Ford was able to do over Transit City. That alone is great, it's time to support all areas of the City's voters and press all parties to build.

Miller was likely somewhat mum and wishy washy at times on the DRL for fear of the backlash from the inner suburbs that occurred anyway. Ford supports the DRL and inner suburban subways as do most of the people who live in a reasonable proximity to these area. Time to move forward with the solid support and get building

 

[nfitz]

Miller was likely somewhat mum and wishy washy at times on the DRL for fear of the backlash from the inner suburbs that occurred anyway.

He moved it forward. He knew the funding requests were going to be a long time after his term, and he didn't need to spend political capital, not even knowing who was going to be in power when that call came.

Ford could have pushed DRL during his mayoralty, but he was extremely wishy-washy, and seemed more interested in vodka and crack, than advancing subways in Toronto. Quite frankly - I don't think he was a particularly competent leader.

 

[Rainforest]

It happend in australia multiple times. But Randy Hillier owns this now, if Ford fails, his political career is over.

Interesting. I did not know.

 

[Rainforest]

Is was only when Rob Ford became mayor that he got the focus back on subways. Without Rob, the DRL would be starting construction now as an on-street LRT.

Rob Ford didn't do anything to advance DRL, he was interested in Sheppard and Eglinton.

The on-street version of Don Mills light rail line never graduated from the design phase, because of obvious difficulties of squeezing the light rail line in the middle of Pape as well as crossing the Don Valley. Moreover, Transit City got scaled back before Rob Ford even got elected, and the Don Mills line relegated to an unspecified future phase.

Rob Ford or not, we wouldn't be building an on-street LRT from Pape today.