[TheTigerMaster]

That I agree with. But I think this is going to get built at this point and go to STC. What @OneCity is saying and I agree with ultimately, is that both Scarborough Subways are getting built out.

There will be no Sheppard East Subway extension until the Relief Ling Long is completed. The Yonge Line can't handle the demand, and thus the chances of Council ever approving such a plan are slim, especially with the new Council coming in this year.

 

[Streety McCarface]

There will be no Sheppard East Subway extension until the Relief Ling Long is completed. The Yonge Line can't handle the demand, and thus the chances of Council ever approving such a plan are slim, especially with the new Council coming in this year.

And there shouldn't be, but the Sheppard Subway will be imperative to Relief Line Long's success north of Eglinton, and especially north of Sheppard since it will connect the spadina subway, the yonge Subway, the Don Mills Subway, and potentially the Crosstown (if it's extended further enough north and the line is extended east enough, which won't happen for at least 60 years), and Line 2. We can't just build spoke systems, we have to build a network since the city is only going to grow up instead of out.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

And there shouldn't be, but the Sheppard Subway will be imperative to Relief Line Long's success north of Eglinton, and especially north of Sheppard since it will connect the spadina subway, the yonge Subway, the Don Mills Subway, and potentially the Crosstown (if it's extended further enough north and the line is extended east enough, which won't happen for at least 60 years), and Line 2. We can't just build spoke systems, we have to build a network since the city is only going to grow up instead of out.

The only thing imperative to the success of the Relief Line Long is the TTC continuing to operate a robust surface transit network throughout Scarborough and eastern North York. Everything else is merely a bonus. Without the Sheppard East Extension, DRL Long will be the second busiest transit route in the city by peak hour ridership, and within spitting distance of matching the ridership of Line 2, which will be the busiest transit route in the city, should the DRL Long be built.

 

[Streety McCarface]

The only thing imperative to the success of the Relief Line Long is the TTC continuing to operate a robust surface transit network throughout Scarborough and eastern North York. Everything else is merely a bonus. Without the Sheppard East Extension, DRL Long will be the second busiest transit route in the city by peak hour ridership, and within spitting distance of matching the ridership of Line 2, which will be the busiest transit route in the city, should the DRL Long be built.

I wouldn't be so sure. The Bloor line succeeds now because of its many surface transit connections, and they're all quick and easy to make. Up north of Eglinton, it's a completely different story. You only have 2 intermediate stations: Lawrence and York Mills. Those two are going to face competition with Smarttrack, and the Scarborough subway extension. People will still actively choose the Yonge line if it is convenient for them. Making it convenient to get to the relief line north of eglinton will be a challenge, but will be necessary.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Here's the footage of the busy sheppard subway.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Part of me hopes that the Sheppard subway is eventually extended in both directions. Yes, it wasn't the best choice of technology, however, it is still an extremely valuable asset for the system. I rode it yesterday at around 3:30 and there were hundreds of people using it, standing room only at Sheppard Yonge. The line poorly integrates surface transit at every station except Don Mills, which saddens me, but explains its lack of ridership everywhere except there. If they eventually extend the line, it needs to be built with surface transit connections in mind, and the network that surrounds it needs to be seriously considered. I'm talking about creating new bus routes to serve surrounding neighbourhoods like they do along the Bloor and Danforth lines. What I don't understand is why Lawrence isn't getting an LRT. The corridor is due for much growth and has solid ridership, but it along with steeles, York Mills/Wilson, and st clair east are always ignored.

I agree with this. I think an upzoning of sheppard east is needed as well, if only to help the city handle the capacity of newcomers.

There will be no Sheppard East Subway extension until the Relief Ling Long is completed. The Yonge Line can't handle the demand, and thus the chances of Council ever approving such a plan are slim, especially with the new Council coming in this year.

And there shouldn't be, but the Sheppard Subway will be imperative to Relief Line Long's success north of Eglinton, and especially north of Sheppard since it will connect the spadina subway, the yonge Subway, the Don Mills Subway, and potentially the Crosstown (if it's extended further enough north and the line is extended east enough, which won't happen for at least 60 years), and Line 2. We can't just build spoke systems, we have to build a network since the city is only going to grow up instead of out.

We always say until the DRL, but right now they are pushing ahead with Yonge North, which is not even in the city. Doug is going to say this has less riders for now, less of an impact, what do we say to that? And streety street is right about the DRL Long and the University extension, as I'll imagine the trains will be split at sheppard west or wilson to help maintain headways on the university line, with one train going from VCC to STC and one from VCC to Union.

 

[rbt]

We always say until the DRL, but right now they are pushing ahead with Yonge North, which is not even in the city.

Neither the federal or provincial liberals are pushing Yonge North as a priority. York Region got very little funding in this package which is for a 10 year period.

An incoming government can tinker a bit but ultimately they need the feds to sign off on the change and their package stipulated a pretty heavy split toward organizations with ridership. That applied equally to all provinces. Toronto Council will never sign off on making the York Region portion their responsibility to fund.

A Yonge start will follow the DRL pretty closely but I don't think either Ford or Wynne will be around to announce it.

 

[Streety McCarface]

I agree with this. I think an upzoning of sheppard east is needed as well, if only to help the city handle the capacity of newcomers.


We always say until the DRL, but right now they are pushing ahead with Yonge North, which is not even in the city. Doug is going to say this has less riders for now, less of an impact, what do we say to that? And streety street is right about the DRL Long and the University extension, as I'll imagine the trains will be split at sheppard west or wilson to help maintain headways on the university line, with one train going from VCC to STC and one from VCC to Union.

I would argue that with Yonge North, Sheppard east and west will be needed that much more. Some north York commuters will most definitely have jobs around Pape Gerrard, or Science Centre locations, as well as in Scarborough and along the university line, or will attend York University. If there are no easy connections to any of those locations, they will be funnelled through the Yonge Line. The sheppard line will be necessary then, but density needs to improve, and building now will prevent the issues we are having now.

Solve the Yonge line with Relief line long, fix the RT/SSE, then connect all the major lines with the sheppard line.

 

[Hopkins123]

DRL will always be perceived by many as a nice-to-have vanity project that'll suck up limited funds that otherwise could go towards fully grade-separating Eglinton Crosstown, extending both sides of the Bloor-Danforth and completing the Sheppard Line.

 

[Streety McCarface]

DRL will always be perceived by many as a nice-to-have vanity project that'll suck up limited funds that otherwise could go towards fully grade-separating Eglinton Crosstown, extending both sides of the Bloor-Danforth and completing the Sheppard Line.

And those people never take the Yonge line. I don't believe anyone here thinks the DRL long is not necessary. We're arguing where the politics are and what the benefits of supporting some lines will do. We also are looking at shortcomings of these potential lines, for instance, lack of line accessibility for DRL long, and the political issues of not building an SSE stop at Lawrence East.

 

[Hopkins123]

And those people never take the Yonge line. I don't believe anyone here thinks the DRL long is not necessary. We're arguing where the politics are and what the benefits of supporting some lines will do. We also are looking at shortcomings of these potential lines, for instance, lack of line accessibility for DRL long, and the political issues of not building an SSE stop at Lawrence East.

DRL Long and West combined could exceed $20 billion. Could we not build out all of the above extensions for the same price? Tory was not all wrong when he suggested SmartTrack as an alternative to a fully tunneled DRL, at least for now. Lack of a proper connection to the Danforth Line being the biggest hurdle to overcome for it but a Danforth - Main Street link at least is an option.

The needs of people living in the outskirts of the city won't go away just because we want them too. Dismissing the commencement of all other subway projects until the DRL is built is a fine way to alienate more and more voters.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

DRL will always be perceived by many as a nice-to-have vanity project that'll suck up limited funds that otherwise could go towards fully grade-separating Eglinton Crosstown, extending both sides of the Bloor-Danforth and completing the Sheppard Line.

Yes. Vanity project, that:

https://twitter.com/domlee2010/status/958352394605285377

You know, I bet you a good chunk of those getting stuck there is from the east and west end of the city.

AoD

 

[OneCity]

DRL Long and West combined could exceed $20 billion. Could we not build out all of the above extensions for the same price? Tory was not all wrong when he suggested SmartTrack as an alternative to a fully tunneled DRL, at least for now. Lack of a proper connection to the Danforth Line being the biggest hurdle to overcome for it but a Danforth - Main Street link at least is an option.

The needs of people living in the outskirts of the city won't go away just because we want them too. Dismissing the commencement of all other subway projects until the DRL is built is a fine way to alienate more and more voters.

Politically that is insanity and DRL will still be needed. Its a polluted enough political environment already trying to build a subway to Scarborough Centre without the DRL funded. We need to build intra-City relief and 416-905 growth simultaneously. Put a proper funding model in place and not stop building. We are already far behind and it will get worse if we continue to pit relief vs. growth

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

DRL Long and West combined could exceed $20 billion. Could we not build out all of the above extensions for the same price? Tory was not all wrong when he suggested SmartTrack as an alternative to a fully tunneled DRL, at least for now. Lack of a proper connection to the Danforth Line being the biggest hurdle to overcome for it but a Danforth - Main Street link at least is an option.

The needs of people living in the outskirts of the city won't go away just because we want them too. Dismissing the commencement of all other subway projects until the DRL is built is a fine way to alienate more and more voters.

The needs of those people living in the outskirts of the city isn't dependent on mode, but on improving travel times, trip frequencies and trip reliability. But of course, you want to talk about vanity projects right?

AoD

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I wouldn't be so sure. The Bloor line succeeds now because of its many surface transit connections, and they're all quick and easy to make. Up north of Eglinton, it's a completely different story. You only have 2 intermediate stations: Lawrence and York Mills. Those two are going to face competition with Smarttrack, and the Scarborough subway extension. People will still actively choose the Yonge line if it is convenient for them. Making it convenient to get to the relief line north of eglinton will be a challenge, but will be necessary.

The Relief Line North will connect to some of Canada’s densest communites at Flemingdon and Throncliffe Park, it will connect to the Eglinton Crosstown LRT (and likely EELRT as well), it will connect to bus routes at Larwrence, York Mills, Sheppard and Finch, and regional bus routes as well. A very substantial portion of Toronto’s busiest routes will intersect this line. Connectivity is the least of the problems with then DRL NORTH.