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- Thread starter innsertnamehere
- Start date
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I assume that it won't be pure provincial cash - much like recent announcements, it is assumed to be matched by other levels of government.
syn
Senior Member
In their first election, the Ford's promised subway expansion complete by 2015 that wouldn't cost the public a cent.
In the 2014 election it was 32km of subways/burying LRTs for $9 billion (https://torontoist.com/2014/10/the-ford-family-subway-plan/):
This includes a 7.4km Sheppard Subway extension for $1.8 billion, and the first phase of the DRL for $3.2 billion.
He is completely untrustworthy on the transit file (and pretty much anything else).
innsertnamehere
Superstar
The $5 billion predates ford - It's from the Brown era, when he similarly promised it for subways in Toronto, including the sheppard line.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
In their first election, the Ford's promised subway expansion complete by 2015 that wouldn't cost the public a cent.
In the 2014 election it was 32km of subways/burying LRTs for $9 billion (https://torontoist.com/2014/10/the-ford-family-subway-plan/):
This includes a 7.4km Sheppard Subway extension for $1.8 billion, and the first phase of the DRL for $3.2 billion.
He is completely untrustworthy on the transit file (and pretty much anything else).
1 this is his brother, 2 this was in 2014. We thought the SSE was only going to cost 200 million dollars more than the LRT and ended at Sheppard. Using those numbers, the 8 km subway line would have cost about 2 billion dollars, so roughly 250 million dollars per kilometer. These numbers were being quoted from the last subway extension that was built in the city (the Sheppard subway, which came in under budget and relatively cheap at <200M/km). Considering this, the numbers seemed completely fine at the time. Also noting that the Sheppard subway would have been 6.25 km (not the 7.4 you're quoting), 1.8 billion seemed reasonable.
32 km for 9 billion == 280 Million$/km, above projections for everything else. If you ask me, that seems fairly reasonable given the time period.
EDIT: I am in no way advocating for Doug Ford, but calling one politician out of everyone untrustworthy with transit is unfair given that everyone made these assumptions. Tory was quoting the same numbers as ford during the campaign.
syn
Senior Member
1) False - https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/doug-ford-subways-subways-and-subways/article20923821/
2) Irrelevant. Even in 2014 these numbers were completely absurd. In 2011, Gordon Chong (Rob Ford's hand picked point man) estimated the cost of the Sheppard Extension alone to be $4.7 billion. How does it drop by nearly $3 billion three years later?! The answer is that the numbers were made up to get elected, kind of like their made up plans the first time around.
Ford's time in government has demonstrated he's all slogans/lies, and no substance.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
So...Doug picked up after his brother's campaign and followed through with all his resources, and I'm supposed to believe it was all him because...?
And last I checked, all politicians lie uncontrollably, especially in election years. Taking one politician's word without considering their own lies while criticizing others doesn't make a fair argument. Also, wasn't that 4.7 billion figure the absolute maximum for a full Sheppard extension beyond McCowan Avenue? In 2011, the TYSSE was just getting underway and despite that extension being longer, having larger stations and platforms, and crossing a municipal boundary, It still cost 3 billion dollars. At the time, 5 billion dollars for 6 km didn't add up to the status quo, and it was logical to void those numbers in favour of more universal statistics (which we know now are completely irrelevant).
But why even bring up old election promises when the Tory claim for vast subway extensions will be covered in under 5 billion dollars?
syn
Senior Member
Ford was intimately involved with his brother's campaign and his mayorship too. He proudly presented this as his transit plan and boasted it was all possible...but we aren't supposed to hold him responsible for any it??
Even if you look through this forum, the universal consensus was that $9 billion for what he was proposing (32km of underground transit) was completely made up. Ford's 7.4km, $1.8 billion dollar line would've taken it just past McCowan. Would you care to explain how the same extension drops by nearly $3 billion dollars three years later?
nfitz
Superstar
It would likely take two forms. A Liberal minority propped up by the NDP, or an NDP minority propped up by the Liberals. Though as the the Liberals already hold power, I'd think that the latter would be unlikely, unless the NDP are close to forming a majority.
I'd think a Liberal minority would likely be very similar to the one that lasted from 2011 to 2014 with Premiers McGuinty and Wynne. Basically, they'd govern like they had a majority, and toss the NDP enough goodies, until the NDP get greedy and try and trigger an election.
hw621
Senior Member
Does that mean the transit projects will remain intact?
syn
Senior Member
Most likely. I couldn't see much of a reason for the NDP to challenge the projects they're supporting.
Northern Light
Superstar
This is reasonably accurate.
The NDP are proposing deficits roughly 1/2 the size of the Liberals by raising corporate tax from 11.5% to 13% as well as by raising taxes on those earning greater than $200,000 per year.
This can be seen in their platform here:
https://www.ontariondp.ca/platform
Of course they still envision deficits as do the competing parties. No one is proposing a return to balance in the near term.
DopeyFish
Active Member
The one thing that is really good about the NDP platform is out of all of the parties, we are most likely to reach balanced budget after their term than with the other two. The reasoning is, a lot of their stuff is driven towards increasing revenue. Short and long term. I think I'm going to hop on their bandwagon because of that. The more revenue we have, the quicker we can close the debt gap.
Allandale25
Senior Member
hw621
Senior Member
Where is RER?