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even though I would never vote for liberals , not paying down the national debt and spending more during covid is a very smart move
it leaves more $CAD in the economy for private sector , the federal government doesn't need tax dollars to increase spending, taxes are only there to 1) create demand for $CAD (as taxes can only be paid in $CAD , 2) balance out the economy. and our national debt is in Canadian dollars , so we don't have to borrow from anyone but ourselves we (government)can just buy our own bonds. national debt = more assets for us , think about buying a house and going into debt , but them you have an asset the house
most politicians have a hard time explaining this to people or they just simply just don't understand. and is probably the one thing I don't like about the Conservative party when they talk about national debt and spending, I thought for a second the NDP understood this but when Jagmeet Singh was asked by reporters about how he was gonna pay for it , his answers proves he doesn't understand as well or thinks its unpopular to explain it to voters
good books to read

The Deficit Myth: Modern Monetary Theory and the Birth of the People's Economy​

Book by Stephanie Kelton

Soft Currency Economics II (MMT - Modern Monetary Theory)​

by Warren Mosler

The 7 Deadly Innocent Frauds of Economic Policy​

by Warren Mosler

"we (government)can just buy our own bonds."

That's literally printing money, which, yes, they can do, but then you devalue your currency to the world. There is no hard time explaining this to people: it's ruinous, and that's why no nations ever use this magical solution, except the most desparate already on the verge of catastrophic collapse.
 
"we (government)can just buy our own bonds."

That's literally printing money, which, yes, they can do, but then you devalue your currency to the world. There is no hard time explaining this to people: it's ruinous, and that's why no nations ever use this magical solution, except the most desparate already on the verge of catastrophic collapse.
Japan has been doing that for a long time with no hyper inflation or reduced standard of liviing and they have the best hospitals , roads , high speed trains , everything etc... for their own citizens

remember if the government prints money to build a bridge , that bridge is an asset and adds value to our country and currency
most time government is just buying bonds to keep interest rates lower , to stimulus the economy during hard times to encourage businesses and people to invest more
 
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I want to see a carbon tariff. I would guess that most of the non-vehicular and home heating related carbon and GHG created by Canadians is done in the offshore factories that produce the things we buy. A government incentivized EV might make me feel that I'm helping the environment, if I'm ignorant of the true impact outside of Canada when it comes to batteries, etc.

I envy your optimism, but why do you think this would happen any more than the LPC's pharmacare proposal?


I certainly hope so, though it's concerning that some past proposals have not been implemented. Still, that's better than the zero confidence I have in the CPC to initiate transformative, nation-building ideas.
 
Japan has been doing that for a long time with no hyper inflation or reduced standard of liviing and they have the best hospitals , roads , high speed trains , everything etc... for their own citizens

remember if the government prints money to build a bridge , that bridge is an asset and adds value to our country and currency
most time government is just buying bonds to keep interest rates lower , to stimulus the economy during hard times to encourage businesses and people to invest more
I don't want to opine on what Japan has the best of as I don't live there and experience it day to day, but just because you have something doesn't mean it's good, or the best for any or all situations. High Speed Trains likely add zero quality of life to me. We also don't know what standard of living they would have in an alternate world. It could be greatly reduced. There are a lot of problems in their economy, and the quality of life often seems to be one. They certainly have experienced extreme housing cost increases. Inflation doesn't have to appear in every sector.

I know how accounting works, and that infrastructure is an asset, but public sector assets like that are very difficult to value because there's no real market for them and they can be not the most efficient use. You have to be careful of who you get to print that money.

Ultimately, it's a hope and a dream, with proof based on "if you ignore all of the terrible outcomes, there's only good outcomes."
 
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Diverging slightly from the current topic of discussion, does anyone else feel we've lost the ability to have rational debate?

I got called a coward and a nazi supporter today for suggesting we shouldn't dehumanize people even if they were PPC supporters. I didn't think that being against dehumanization would be a controversial viewpoint but my comment got flooded by people telling me how I was wrong and anyone who supports the PPC should be ostracized, treated like trash and driven out of the country.

I emphasized that we should stand up to them and challenge their viewpoints, but using their own playbook against them only.serves to justify their antics in my opinion.

I really thought that Canada wouldnt be subject to all the decay that we've seen in the US but that seems to not be the case. Or is it just me?

Great observations and excellent question, deserves own thread. The short answer, the culture war….

I take the broad analysis of Matthew Goodwin that politics, particularly in the English speaking world, has increasingly moved from the socio-economic realm towards debates over culture. This often has taken on a distinct moralising character that results in condemnation of personal character as a consequence. Hence, our opponents don’t have different or even wrong opinions/policies, they are bad people. Zach Goldberg and others have identified a distinct cultural turn in public discourse since around 2010 (Matt Yglesias’s so called ‘Great Awokening’). His work encompasses analysis of media discourse and quantitative analysis of public opinion surveys, both demonstrating the elevation of identitarian issues in particular. Eric Kaufmann has traced much of the driving force of these debates to what he describes as Left Modernism (early 20th C origin), that is increasingly prevalent amongst much of the professional knowledge class (politics/education/media). This he describes as the sacrilisation of the historically marginalised race/ethnicities/religions (but not marginalised under classes). These are key (but not sole) drivers in framing the boundaries of social/political debates – the ‘Overton Window.' particularly championed some on the left. Of the US, UK and Australia, I think Canada has the political centre of gravity furthest left – hence one may argue that the broad ‘right’ is systemically on the back foot on key cultural issues.

Many consequences of this. In the UK, key working class ridings that have been forever Labour swung at last GE and enabled a Conservative majority government. Political earthquake. The rise of populism can be identified, particularly on the right, since the financial crisis. But I think that is indicative of broader divisions in societies. What is going on deeper? Very many things individually and interacting collectively. The emerging effects of social media, financial instability, globalisation of manufacturing, Covid, rapid demographic change, the spread of the Fox News business model across many media outlets (Bari Weiss’s thesis). On a more profound level, the erosion (or co-option) of the organisations and institutions that traditionally mediating between the governed and those who govern. E.g. diminishing of union power. Even our old political language is evolving rapidly. Someone who is culturally conservative but economically liberal will be on the right, as left/right tend to be cultural signifiers. Strange bed fellows do emerge. One of the most vociferous critics of the 1619 Project is the WSWS. Who would have thought, socialists. And who decides what constitutes our facts? Knowledge is equally contested (over and above fake news) – probably one reason conspiracy theories are doing good business. So, unlike past, we don’t even seem to a common language/understanding on contested issues.

America is pretty much leading this trend, but particularly rubbing off on English speaking nations; but I hope it can be reversed. The loss of societal cohesion, political division of a sort more ingrained than, arguably, circumstantial as in the past. Overall, not be a good thing in any scenario.

My tuppence as a doctoral student on this…
 
"we (government)can just buy our own bonds."

That's literally printing money, which, yes, they can do, but then you devalue your currency to the world. There is no hard time explaining this to people: it's ruinous, and that's why no nations ever use this magical solution, except the most desparate already on the verge of catastrophic collapse.

For the record, I'm anti-deficit. I also recognize the type of outcome your discussing.

However.........

The U.S. has been engaged in Quantative Easing for more than a decade (which is more or less 'printing money'; except, they've been infusing it into banks rather than government, for the most part.

****

Also worth noting. Canada and the provinces did not borrow debt on the open market in any material way, prior to the early 70s.
Borrowing was historically done through the Bank of Canada (you owe the money to yourself) at very low interest rates.
That's not an endorsement of a high-deficit, high-inflation strategy, merely a point that that has been done here, in the U.S. and elsewhere in the developed world without widespread harm, when done properly.

****

Inflation can obviously have wildly harmful effects, particularly if uncontrolled/exponential in nature.

But....it can also have positive effects.

High Inflation on imported products, resulting from lower currency values favours domestic consumption of domestic goods; and creates favourable conditions for exports.

It tends to harm those of us with material investments if they fail to climb in value with or above inflation........(asset devaluation)

But it tends to be more favourable to those with low investments as it often shows income growth exceeding inflation.

Inflation also tends to devalue existing debt, making it cheaper to repay; which is favourable for people with higher debts, assuming their interest rates are fixed.

So there's some nuance to be had.
 
The LPC platform includes a pledge to study carbon tariffs. And the Liberals were talking about discussing this with the EU and the US well before the election. So hardly new. That's the low hanging fruit.

What I wanted to see was not just a question of how do we cut emissions (and pledging to cap the oil and gas sector was huge), but also a recognition that we're going to go through an energy transition and that is a major economic opportunity for Canada. They get that. Their plan was endorsed by Mark Jaccard, Andrew Weaver and Katharine Hayhoe. I don't recall this kind on unanimity from climate leaders on any political platform before. And I actually reached the same opinion by just reading all the climate platforms of the major parties.

A government incentivized EV might make me feel that I'm helping the environment, if I'm ignorant of the true impact outside of Canada when it comes to batteries, etc.

The major opportunities with EVs is not about buying them. It's about making them in Canada. And to that end, the Liberals have some important wins.
 
even though I would never vote for liberals , not paying down the national debt and spending more during covid is a very smart move
I think I may have not been clear. The 2015 promise was to eliminate the deficit by 2019, before Covid. If we had done so as promised we would then be in a better position to run the emergency deficits during Covid. That’s my point, during the good times you pay down debt so that you can take on debt during times of crisis. Instead, every PM since Martin has run deficits during the good times, leaving us vulnerable during tough times.
 
Add Andrew Leach to the list of those endorsing the Liberal climate plan. And this blog post explaining his decision really speaks to how I feel too:


The conservatives aren't serious on climate change. And the NDP and Greens care more about virtue signalling than concrete implementable policy.

I'm a climate voter this election. It's an easy choice for me.
 
I think I may have not been clear. The 2015 promise was to eliminate the deficit by 2019, before Covid. If we had done so as promised we would then be in a better position to run the emergency deficits during Covid. That’s my point, during the good times you pay down debt so that you can take on debt during times of crisis. Instead, every PM since Martin has run deficits during the good times, leaving us vulnerable during tough times.
finding money will never ever be a problem even during covid or during great times, national debt doesn't matter
watch this its only 6 minuted long and explains why
 
finding money will never ever be a problem even during covid or during great times, national debt doesn't matter
watch this its only 6 minuted long and explains why
Going to have to disagree here. A debt crisis is emerging and inflation is starting to rapidly increase. Debt is an issue and it will be a growing one.

The short term goal is to continue propping up banks and markets but that isnt feasible forever. Look at the debt crisis emerging in China in the wake of a series of major defaults. And China is hardly transparent with their money too. There needs to be some long term plan to deal with the issue. That doesnt necessarily mean stopping spending but what we are doing right now cannot continue indefinitely
 
Going to have to disagree here. A debt crisis is emerging and inflation is starting to rapidly increase. Debt is an issue and it will be a growing one.

The short term goal is to continue propping up banks and markets but that isnt feasible forever. Look at the debt crisis emerging in China in the wake of a series of major defaults. And China is hardly transparent with their money too. There needs to be some long term plan to deal with the issue. That doesnt necessarily mean stopping spending but what we are doing right now cannot continue indefinitely
inflation is under control,its transitory, and we have a nice yield curve on bonds, if we had an inflation problem the bank of Canada would be rising interest rates right., inflation will come down to their target of 2%, better to have a little inflation above targets,then deflation if the government didn't step up and do something during covid
look at lumber futures
Screenshot_20210916-234857.png

gold futures
Screenshot_20210916-234931.png


you can go to the Bank of Canada website and read about their core functions, under the core functions tab www.bankofcanada.ca
 
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Something mentioned on another forum got me to looking. There appears to be no public information that the PPC has a Board, constitution, bylaws, or any kind of governing documents or structures, other than 'regional/provincial coordinators'. The do post a link to their financial statement which they are required to submit to Elections Canada. The 'main' parties link all of this information on their websites, including riding association details.

According to the Elections Canada website, the requirements to be a registered political party (there are 22) is pretty minimal. They have to have three 'officers', an auditor and a chief agent.

Curious.
 

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