ssiguy2
Senior Member
RCB..........................I saw the "F" word and I don't appreciate it. Let's keep this forum civil and free of profanity. Thanks.
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- Thread starter Electrify
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Coltaine79
Active Member
adma,
Why are you so focussed on Pim Fortuyn anyways? This isn't the first time I've seen you reference him. I do recall the hysteria associated with his death - as I recall, he was a possibly gay man who believed that Islam was incompatible with Dutch culture, and assassinated as a result. Not sure how this folds into the whole Rob Ford victory thing.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
It's a very good question indeed. Does anyone remember how long it takes to get ward results?
RC8
Senior Member
You are missing the point of the sikh girl story completely. The problem wasn't her 'redneck behaviour', which is awfully common both in immigrants and in non-immigrants. The problem is that when I called on it I was labelled racist. It's happening again. And it would keep happening.
If I criticise a white Canadian for the exact same attitudes and acts it's seen as perfectly understandable criticism. But when I apply the same card to people from other backgrounds all of a sudden I'm being horrible and racist.
I'm making 2 important claims here:
1. If you are racist, homophobic, or just an asshole, you are less likely to get called on it if you bring up an archaic cultural background as an excuse.
2. In a society that isn't likely to call on people with archaic cultural backgrounds when they are being racist, sexist, etc. What do you expect?
Blame is most definitely not on the immigrants' side on this one. It's progressive people that have chosen to be overly respectful to discrimination of the worst sorts that need to get their act together.
archanfel
Active Member
As I said from day one, the immigrants (at least the ones I know) are tired of established society telling them what is offensive to them and what is not. And if I remembered correctly, the reply was a bunch of name calling. The "progressive" element of our society has boxed themselves in a very narrow path and they treat people who do not share their ideology with contempt, which ironically reflect the very treat they were trying to fight. "Anti-bigot bigot" was the phrase I believe.
adma
Superstar
Because what he represented was the outer limits of, well, the "anti-bigot bigot" tendency of which archanfel speaks--of all the recent Euro-nativist movements and figureheads, he's the truest "aesthete". And as such, if one wants to attack the urban-hipster-latte class for being discriminatory, that's a better point of comparison than a tipot banality like Paul Fromm...
Cooool
Active Member
I agree with your theory completely. I simply do not believe that the simple strategy of cut taxes and eliminate waste would be that much of a selling point. I don't believe Toronto would be dumb enough to overlook his anti-logical stance on just about every issue, especially getting rid of the streetcars. Not to mention, how could anyone have the nerve to vote for a candidate who was arrested on a DUI and pot possession and then lied about it. The man is just not a very smart character. I don't believe that Toronto has taken a page out of America's books and believes that dumb and unarticulate = true American.
I think Rob Ford had a large immigrant base from the inner suburbs like Scarborough and North York, who resonate with his bigotry and his simple message.
I think when you have a country like Canada, accepting as many immigrants as they do, from conservative countries, you have to ensure not to let them set the agenda. It is their job to adjust to our way of living, not the other way around. I remember hearing an Indian girl who had been in Canada for almost ten years say that homosexuality was "disgusting" and that she's going to be married for life because Indians don't get divorced. This sort of attitude is unacceptable and I don't see enough discussion on how to prevent it from becoming mainstream in places that are largely composed of the same demographic.
There was a Bill Maher segment in which he critisizes Islam and says "Don't be so tolerant to the point where you tolerate intolerance".
I think Rob Ford had a large immigrant base from the inner suburbs like Scarborough and North York, who resonate with his bigotry and his simple message.
I think when you have a country like Canada, accepting as many immigrants as they do, from conservative countries, you have to ensure not to let them set the agenda. It is their job to adjust to our way of living, not the other way around. I remember hearing an Indian girl who had been in Canada for almost ten years say that homosexuality was "disgusting" and that she's going to be married for life because Indians don't get divorced. This sort of attitude is unacceptable and I don't see enough discussion on how to prevent it from becoming mainstream in places that are largely composed of the same demographic.
There was a Bill Maher segment in which he critisizes Islam and says "Don't be so tolerant to the point where you tolerate intolerance".
The_Waffler
Active Member
He was smart enough to beat your guy. And apparently there are enough ignoramuses out there to dare vote for Ford... maybe even set a record in Canada for support. http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/10/27/rob-ford-sets-voting-record/
Speaking of having the nerve to vote for the drunken lying pot smoker, how about the folks who had the nerve to vote for the $1 Billion buffoon?
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js97
Senior Member
Haha, ironically enough, you manage to call immigrants 'conservative' while at the same time having a very conservative view on immigration and assimilation... lol.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
Maybe it's too early to tell, but does anyone else get the impression that Ford is a little bit surprised and confused at the attention he's getting and the importance people attach to his position?
toto
Active Member
While, dumb and inarticulate = true American. Educated elite = Un Canadian. At least that's what our Federal Conservatives want you to believe. Seems as though, the majority of right leaning Torontonians, think the same. Some whacko DJ on 1010 radio was going on about the elitists at the CBC and As it Happens and blah, blah blah... I Bet you, this nut-bar cares very much that his own children get past grade 10. Such a hypocrite! I have had the good fortune to spend time with many different cultures over past few years. An education, the higher the better, for their children, was the one they all have in common. There might be a move to paint a segment of our population Un Canadian, but the fact of the matter is that those doing the painting are truly Un Canadian. I like to refer to them as wannabe tea party Americans, which would make them dumb and inarticulate.
RC8
Senior Member
Nonsense. Rejecting homophobia and irrational traditions is in no way or shape conservative behaviour. It's the complete opposite in fact.
Cooool
Active Member
Exactly.
I would hope any true liberal would be opposed to an instition that so openly teaches about homophobia and gender inequality. Often you will hear "respect their culture" as an easy way to keep things quiet, but I can respect their culture while still being able to understand there are some obvious undesirable traits. I think it's interesting that certain liberals (rightfully so) attack "rednecks" or people in the American south about being politically backwards, yet you could state the same thing about certain Middle Eastern cultures. If they are so open to attacking Christianity for dumbing society down and preaching borderline hate, I think they should be able to concede that certain immigrant cultures are responsible for exactly the same.
With that being said, I disagree with Rob Ford's anti-immigration stance. I just think we need to be careful about their conservative views and its effect on policy. There was a story on CityNews about how tamils were supporting Rob Ford because he had "proper ideals" and was married to a woman, unlike Smitherman. This sort of prejudice needs to be discouraged and political correctness should not interfere.
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Okay, so you're fed up with bigotry from Tamils and you're going to show just how much more sophisticated you are by...being bigoted? Come on.
I know that there are elements of South Asian culture that don't jive with our Western views on the rights of gay people, etc. but does that mean our reaction should be to shun or make pariahs of these groups? Probably not, because to do so we would be hypocrites.
The only way out of this mess; the only way to foster a truly multicultural society where we are accepting of difference is for two enemy groups to sit down at the table, engage in a dialogue and realize that while they have the right to hold on to their beliefs, they also have the responsibility of ensuring that their values are not imposed upon others. That goes for homophobic Tamils and that goes for you, too.
drone
Active Member
that aint gonna happen
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