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As much as I would and do support rail transit I’m general, where is the business case that supports transit from any of these destinations, through Barrie into the GTA?Possibly ‘‘Holiday’ trains or specialized summer/winter services? I could see this as the Niagara Train seems to be garnering increasing support And should be expanded. And if so, why not Gravenhurst, Bracebridge and Huntsville, and then possibly a reincarnation of parts of the Ottawa, Arnprior and Parry Sound railway into Algonquin Park as another destination? But as a commuter train? I’m not seeing that yet.
 
As much as I would and do support rail transit I’m general, where is the business case that supports transit from any of these destinations, through Barrie into the GTA?Possibly ‘‘Holiday’ trains or specialized summer/winter services? I could see this as the Niagara Train seems to be garnering increasing support And should be expanded. And if so, why not Gravenhurst, Bracebridge and Huntsville, and then possibly a reincarnation of parts of the Ottawa, Arnprior and Parry Sound railway into Algonquin Park as another destination? But as a commuter train? I’m not seeing that yet.
It would service the congested tourist districts of Wasaga, Collingwood, and Blue Mountain.

Personally, we just need to preserve the corridor for now.
 
As much as I would and do support rail transit I’m general, where is the business case that supports transit from any of these destinations, through Barrie into the GTA?Possibly ‘‘Holiday’ trains or specialized summer/winter services? I could see this as the Niagara Train seems to be garnering increasing support And should be expanded. And if so, why not Gravenhurst, Bracebridge and Huntsville, and then possibly a reincarnation of parts of the Ottawa, Arnprior and Parry Sound railway into Algonquin Park as another destination? But as a commuter train? I’m not seeing that yet.
The Canadian already serves Parry Sound. The Northlander (once it's back) wil serve Muskoka.
There are no tracks to Algonquin park so that's not happening.
 
The Canadian already serves Parry Sound. The Northlander (once it's back) wil serve Muskoka.
There are no tracks to Algonquin park so that's not happening.

There’s also a major difference in function. Algonquin is a wilderness area that is already being stressed by the number of visitors. Muskoka/Parry Sound is somewhat densely populated as a recreational area, but mostly as a residential area involving multi day stays rather than one-day attractions, and requiring a fairly spread out first/last mile connection (that doesn’t exist today). These are not locations where one can deliver a thousand-person daytripper train service as we are doing with Niagara.
As a first step, we should be looking for weekend/holiday rail service to places that can absorb visitors in volume and have both amenities and infrastructure to absorb those visitors - Barrie, Kitchener, Stratford, London, Peterborough (assuming HFR some day fixes the tracks), Cobourg, and possibly even Kingston would all make great daytripper destinations for GTA residents.
Then we can look at the branches that could be added that would add to this, and the related business opportunities that could be developed eg overnight stays, multi day packages, etc. These additions might be doable some day, but should not happen until the critical mass of 2WAD lines is built.
I am old enough to remember the Elmira Sugar Bush Specials and the excursion trains to various country festivals and I would dearly love to ride a bike train to, say, Inglewood. But I’m not sure a thousand people alighting at the Credit Forks with their bikes would work well without a lot of planned investment. We aren’t there yet, but hopefully it’s coming.

- Paul
 
There’s also a major difference in function. Algonquin is a wilderness area that is already being stressed by the number of visitors. Muskoka/Parry Sound is somewhat densely populated as a recreational area, but mostly as a residential area involving multi day stays rather than one-day attractions, and requiring a fairly spread out first/last mile connection (that doesn’t exist today). These are not locations where one can deliver a thousand-person daytripper train service as we are doing with Niagara.
As a first step, we should be looking for weekend/holiday rail service to places that can absorb visitors in volume and have both amenities and infrastructure to absorb those visitors - Barrie, Kitchener, Stratford, London, Peterborough (assuming HFR some day fixes the tracks), Cobourg, and possibly even Kingston would all make great daytripper destinations for GTA residents.
Then we can look at the branches that could be added that would add to this, and the related business opportunities that could be developed eg overnight stays, multi day packages, etc. These additions might be doable some day, but should not happen until the critical mass of 2WAD lines is built.
I am old enough to remember the Elmira Sugar Bush Specials and the excursion trains to various country festivals and I would dearly love to ride a bike train to, say, Inglewood. But I’m not sure a thousand people alighting at the Credit Forks with their bikes would work well without a lot of planned investment. We aren’t there yet, but hopefully it’s coming.

- Paul
I agree with all of this and would like to see it happen. All of the destinations named should be part of a daily regional rail transport system with higher speed service and some frequency of service.

Extending services to Collingwood, Gravenhurst (Etc)
could be attractive if your could deliver higher speed service with some holiday frequency for all those ’commuting’ to their vacation destination. But could this happen?

Jumping on the train at Union Friday evening and getting picked up in Gravenhurst after a two hour ride would be pretty darn awesome.
 
I think the commuter market is between Collingwood and Barrie but also to the airport and to places like Vaughan and Newmarket.

Even if the train is the same time as driving with gas and car prices today taking the train is more attractive. But they could start with an on the demand service like they are with Cobourg to see the demand.

This goes back to the fact that GO needs to start to look at regional centers instead of just Toronto centric. Barrie, Hamilton and London all could be regional centers for GO services. If GO were to start a spoke and wheel type GO bus network from those cities and build up the ridership, somewhere like Collingwood might see the train return in all due time.

I just started a new thread on a massive 130 acre proposal at the edge of Collingwood.

I note, with interest, the trail/rail ROW runs right along the edge of the proposal.


"Live beside a rail trail " sounds better than "Live beside an active rail line." However, that doesn't mean the development should be ignored.

It would service the congested tourist districts of Wasaga, Collingwood, and Blue Mountain.

Personally, we just need to preserve the corridor for now.

That is the most important thing.If it is intact, it can come back.

The Canadian already serves Parry Sound. The Northlander (once it's back) wil serve Muskoka.
There are no tracks to Algonquin park so that's not happening.

This goes back to options. Metrolinx should work with the ONR to use their buses to connect to stations to go to various places. Maybe a ONR bus between Parry Sound - Huntsville - Algonquin Park- Ottawa would be a good seasonal thing.
 
This goes back to the fact that GO needs to start to look at regional centers instead of just Toronto centric. Barrie, Hamilton and London all could be regional centers for GO services. If GO were to start a spoke and wheel type GO bus network from those cities and build up the ridership, somewhere like Collingwood might see the train return in all due time.



"Live beside a rail trail " sounds better than "Live beside an active rail line." However, that doesn't mean the development should be ignored.



That is the most important thing.If it is intact, it can come back.



This goes back to options. Metrolinx should work with the ONR to use their buses to connect to stations to go to various places. Maybe a ONR bus between Parry Sound - Huntsville - Algonquin Park- Ottawa would be a good seasonal thing.
There is already bus service to Party sound, but it heads north towards North Bay.

What you need is for a company like Hammond to partner with ONR. Have a train/bus meet service. Based on a grid have a flat rate to take people to their final destination. Have 12 person vans meet the bus and take you to your resort. The resort would benefit as well. It would be similar to those shuttles that you have from Cancun to the hotel, for $50 it takes you directly from the airport to the hotel for $55.00.

The problem with Muskoka is that from the bus/train station your final destination is not within walking distance and there is no transit. This is why this type of shuttle service is required, plus say $200 round trip from Parry Sound to say Sherwood Inn for 4 people is still cheaper and easier than renting a car from Parry Sound and paying for gas. Plus the car rental place might be closed on Sundays, which makes it not fit your schedule.

I'm sure that places like the JW Marriot would be on board for that. It could also be used to take you from Parry Sound to say Gravenhurst or Bracebridge. Currently that would be a $150 can ride.

Someone go pitch my idea to the guys at Hammond.
 
There is already bus service to Party sound, but it heads north towards North Bay.
Parry Sound bus is between Toronto and Sudbury, not North Bay.
What you need is for a company like Hammond to partner with ONR. Have a train/bus meet service. Based on a grid have a flat rate to take people to their final destination. Have 12 person vans meet the bus and take you to your resort. The resort would benefit as well. It would be similar to those shuttles that you have from Cancun to the hotel, for $50 it takes you directly from the airport to the hotel for $55.00.

The problem with Muskoka is that from the bus/train station your final destination is not within walking distance and there is no transit. This is why this type of shuttle service is required, plus say $200 round trip from Parry Sound to say Sherwood Inn for 4 people is still cheaper and easier than renting a car from Parry Sound and paying for gas. Plus the car rental place might be closed on Sundays, which makes it not fit your schedule.

I'm sure that places like the JW Marriot would be on board for that. It could also be used to take you from Parry Sound to say Gravenhurst or Bracebridge. Currently that would be a $150 can ride.

Someone go pitch my idea to the guys at Hammond.
Getting the private people involved and then subsidizing them would be a bad idea. However, having some sort of transit to serve the towns and resorts of the area might be a great idea. Mind you, no reason those resorts couldn't have their own transportation to a station as well.
 
Parry Sound bus is between Toronto and Sudbury, not North Bay.

Getting the private people involved and then subsidizing them would be a bad idea. However, having some sort of transit to serve the towns and resorts of the area might be a great idea. Mind you, no reason those resorts couldn't have their own transportation to a station as well.
There likely isn't enough demand for them to have a dedicated shuttle. Having these reasources pooled would be for the benefit of everyone.

The insurance and liability for a resort to have a shuttle is huge. Or partner with a cab company. But can companies don't have the best reputation when it comes to safety or vehicles in the best condition. (at least from my experience almost every cab I have been in had a check engine light, ABS light, broken airbag or just not in the best condition.). Dont even get me started about ride shares, a lot of those people should not even have a license to drive period.
 
There is already bus service to Party sound, but it heads north towards North Bay.

What you need is for a company like Hammond to partner with ONR. Have a train/bus meet service. Based on a grid have a flat rate to take people to their final destination. Have 12 person vans meet the bus and take you to your resort. The resort would benefit as well. It would be similar to those shuttles that you have from Cancun to the hotel, for $50 it takes you directly from the airport to the hotel for $55.00.

The problem with Muskoka is that from the bus/train station your final destination is not within walking distance and there is no transit. This is why this type of shuttle service is required, plus say $200 round trip from Parry Sound to say Sherwood Inn for 4 people is still cheaper and easier than renting a car from Parry Sound and paying for gas. Plus the car rental place might be closed on Sundays, which makes it not fit your schedule.

I'm sure that places like the JW Marriot would be on board for that. It could also be used to take you from Parry Sound to say Gravenhurst or Bracebridge. Currently that would be a $150 can ride.

Someone go pitch my idea to the guys at Hammond.
Once/if the Northlander gets reinstated, Hammond and any of the resorts would be free to start the service; I'm not sure why a partnership with ONR would be required - the train will run regardless. There are all sorts of shuttles and limos that service Pearson and no partnerships are involved.

If you can get people to pay $200 to go from Parry Sound to Sherwood, heck, I'll do it!

I'm not convinced places like JW Marriot would be interested. I doubt their clientele is into shared services, and the business model of resorts is to keep you on-site and spend you money there.
 
mto-northern-rail-en-png-800x500-2022-10-04.png
Interesting devolpments with the Ontario Northland Trains. $140 million dollar investment today to restore service to the line in the "mid '20s" which arguably begins next year. Regardless with Via servicing communities in Northern Ontario, and the Northlander servicing the rest and GO expanding service in southern Ontario, it's looking increasingly bizarre that the Collingwood/Wasaga/Owen Sound/Georgian Bay region of Ontario (which is the busiest tourist region outside of the horseshoe) has no rail transit or plans for the foreseeable future.
 
View attachment 445454 Interesting devolpments with the Ontario Northland Trains. $140 million dollar investment today to restore service to the line in the "mid '20s" which arguably begins next year. Regardless with Via servicing communities in Northern Ontario, and the Northlander servicing the rest and GO expanding service in southern Ontario, it's looking increasingly bizarre that the Collingwood/Wasaga/Owen Sound/Georgian Bay region of Ontario (which is the busiest tourist region outside of the horseshoe) has no rail transit or plans for the foreseeable future.
Doesn't even have intercity bus service other than the Linx bus that doesn't even run on weekends. The mayor's of those cities should be ashamed of themselves.
 

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