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Northern Light said:
The Mx deck is a near-perfect example of baking in far too much extraneous, superfluous process at significant expense in both money and time.

The political decision to proceed with this project has essentially been made; there is no extraordinary environmental impact of a negative nature as a result of this project (minor, specific elements such as watercourse crossings can be the subject of a far more scoped study).

The idea that you need to drag out this studying exercise for almost 2 full years beyond what's already been done, and then get only to 30% design..........sigh.
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I thought we change the requirements for EA's and design work to fast track the process of getting the shovels into the ground sooner than later?? This is a case going in the opposite direction to the point its more a funding issue than anything else.
 
drum118 said:
I thought we change the requirements for EA's and design work to fast track the process of getting the shovels into the ground sooner than later??
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The province absolutely did do this.

drum118 said:
This is a case going in the opposite direction to the point its more a funding issue than anything else.
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No question.

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What happened, if you'll notice is that Mx took the 6 months or so removed from the EA process and added back 12 months of additional processes.

Notably several variations/stages of the Business Case Analysis.

I'll show 2 of the deck slides here:

1674551968538.png


1674552017877.png

A sizable chunk of what was removed from E.A. process now shows up under a new name; and for good measure we see extra process on top.

****

Some of these elements it should be said are entirely legitimate, some much less so, but they are organized in such a way as to be more cumbersome, more time consuming and more costly than is necessary or useful.
 
Anyone know what Mississauga did differently to get funding announcements for their Dundas and Lakeshore BRT lines in 2021/2022?
Surely Brampton must be further along by 2024 for a commitment especially with the higher ridership stats.
 
FullMetalEngineer said:
Anyone know what Mississauga did differently to get funding announcements for their Dundas and Lakeshore BRT lines in 2021/2022?
Surely Brampton must be further along by 2024 for a commitment especially with the higher ridership stats.
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Announcements are just that. Until checks are written and cashed they are just PR stunts. I wouldn’t say dundas is any closer to being constructed than Queen street. Maybe but I wouldn’t bet money on it.
 
For supposedly being quick and easy, these BRTs don’t feel quick or easy. I have a hunch they won’t be cheap either if this is any indication.
 
sunnyside said:
For supposedly being quick and easy, these BRTs don’t feel quick or easy. I have a hunch they won’t be cheap either if this is any indication.
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Correct which is why I’d prefer these lines be LRT but in this case it connects to another BRT line.
 
sixrings said:
Correct which is why I’d prefer these lines be LRT but in this case it connects to another BRT line.
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While I understand the relevance of that, my impression is this project will serve those commuting to the areas around York University (incl. 407 station). Not to mention Zum/Brampton transit has a better service track record than VIVA. The continuity of the service is less important to me when the other side (VIVA) sucks, and most people are going elsewhere.

I like the idea of LRT as well. Considering the length and dispersed nature of the area however, I’m inclined to say that the marginal cost to upgrade instead to light metro is worth it. Mostly for the speed benefits, as LRT/BRT are relatively similar there. But that’s essentially fantasy talk.
 
sunnyside said:
For supposedly being quick and easy, these BRTs don’t feel quick or easy. I have a hunch they won’t be cheap either if this is any indication.
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All reports still indicate that this project will be relatively cheap, at around ~300-500m total. This is a far cry to the multi-billion dollar pricetags that most LRTs offer (Eglinton East costs $4B for I believe 9km, meanwhile the section of this BRT from Wigwoss-Helen to Hwy 11 is 18km)
 
sunnyside said:
For supposedly being quick and easy, these BRTs don’t feel quick or easy. I have a hunch they won’t be cheap either if this is any indication.
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LRTs are demonstrated to be pretty pricey in Toronto. From the BRT projects that have been realized, they tend to be a lot more affordable.
 
ARG1 said:
All reports still indicate that this project will be relatively cheap, at around ~300-500m total. This is a far cry to the multi-billion dollar pricetags that most LRTs offer (Eglinton East costs $4B for I believe 9km, meanwhile the section of this BRT from Wigwoss-Helen to Hwy 11 is 18km)
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I'm not sure where the Eglinton East numbers are from. It's 15 km for Eglinton East to Sheppard Avenue to Malvern Town Centre. And 18.5 km if they build the proposed leg to Sheppard East subway station.
 
nfitz said:
I'm not sure where the Eglinton East numbers are from. It's 15 km for Eglinton East to Sheppard Avenue to Malvern Town Centre. And 18.5 km if they build the proposed leg to Sheppard East subway station.
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I was under the impression that the $4B was only the section from Kennedy to UTSC. Apologies. The point doesn't really change though, it's like 8x the cost for a similar length.
 
ARG1 said:
I was under the impression that the $4B was only the section from Kennedy to UTSC. Apologies. The point doesn't really change though, it's like 8x the cost for a similar length.
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Could be ... though I think it has to get to at least Sheppard to get to Conlins yard. (and the wrong way down Sheppard to the yard). The cost also would include the yard as well.

I don't recall the number - I should dig through the city files.
 
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