Beltline_B
Senior Member
Please don’t build this.
- Thread starter MichaelS
- Start date
O-tac
Active Member
Barf. Not only will it be oppressive from the street, but imagine the feel inside any of those towers staring directly into your neighbours windows. Even without a rendering it looks like generic Toronto random patterned spandrel schlock.
Disraeli
Active Member
It would easily take the crown as having the most oppressive massing in the city on what is currently the most human scale street in the CBD (unless you count surface lots as human scale)
CT (Chinese_T)
Active Member
I don't like many aspects of this development but you guys are definitely over-exaggerating the "oppressiveness" of the Stephen ave side of the podium. It's honestly not that bad. Don't forget the Home Oil Tower is right up next to Stephen ave and doesn't feel oppressive at all. The real issue with the podium is on the 7th ave side...
wolvie
New Member
Well I wrote my "alderperson" (can/do we still use that word? 
anyways) and gave him my two cents worth on how I felt about this project and it's handling.
The city seems to want this project to fly under the radar of most citizens, there's hardly any media coverage, no signage, no meetings, I'm not liking that a project of this significance is being so secretive.
anyways) and gave him my two cents worth on how I felt about this project and it's handling.The city seems to want this project to fly under the radar of most citizens, there's hardly any media coverage, no signage, no meetings, I'm not liking that a project of this significance is being so secretive.
adamyyc
Active Member
Home Oil Tower doesn’t span an entire (almost) city block though.I don't like many aspects of this development but you guys are definitely over-exaggerating the "oppressiveness" of the Stephen ave side of the podium. It's honestly not that bad. Don't forget the Home Oil Tower is right up next to Stephen ave and doesn't feel oppressive at all. The real issue with the podium is on the 7th ave side...
CT (Chinese_T)
Active Member
If I'm reading the plans correctly, the main office portion seems to be set back almost half a block on the Stephen ave side when it reaches the fifth floor, no?
This is only my personal opinion, but I always found the section where Bankers Hall and Home Oil are at to be cold and a bit on the sterile side. Probably a lot to do with the shade on the south side from Bankers Hall, which we wouldn't see from this project but definitely a different vibe on that block. It's busy during the business hours, but tends to be kind of desolate in the evening or weekends. That stretch of Stephen Ave from 2nd street to Centre street is the best human scaled, vibrant section of downtown, I would rather leave it as it is.
Maybe I'm shell shocked from seeing too many mega office towers with large podiums in the downtown, but my feeling these days is that we don't need any more. It would be beneficial to have those extra residents, but if this doesn't get built, the residential units will get built somewhere else, as per the market.
Maybe I'm shell shocked from seeing too many mega office towers with large podiums in the downtown, but my feeling these days is that we don't need any more. It would be beneficial to have those extra residents, but if this doesn't get built, the residential units will get built somewhere else, as per the market.
haltcatchfire
Senior Member
YourBoy007
Active Member
I've never been more anticipating of the meetings.
outoftheice
Active Member
Well I wrote my "alderperson" (can/do we still use that word?
The city seems to want this project to fly under the radar of most citizens, there's hardly any media coverage, no signage, no meetings, I'm not liking that a project of this significance is being so secretive.
Should there not be large signs on both Stephen Ave and 7 Ave advertising the DP Application and informing the public about how they can comment? I haven't been downtown since the project was announced but I thought that was an actual bylaw requirement? If that hasn't happened is there any recourse?
CCF
Active Member
I would also argue that the Oil Tower is one of the worst sections on Stephen Avenue (poor relationship with the street). Not the type of conditions we would want to mimic elsewhere along the street.
Joborule
Active Member
I don't really take issue with the size of the proposal. It's right in the mid section of the CBD, so that's where tall is suppose to go. But I feel the street level has to be significantly better - mainly on the 7th ave side.
I would appreciate it if the old heritage buildings could be integrated into the development, but if they're too far gone or don't fit in the aesthetics of the building, that's alright if they're torn down. But don't make 7th ave an afterthought; it should be viewed as crucial as the south aspect of this proposal. I think 7th ave had a fair amount of potential of becoming a more urban corridor if more CRU's can be built along the avenue. There is the ability to bring more life to it in the nighttime and on weekends if effort is given.
This development could be a contributor to that if there's a good amount of retail and restaurants built on the north side. It should leverage direct access to the LRT, that by default has a lot of people going through the area. I think mentioned in here already that Centre Street station should be decommissioned, and built on this block to twin 1st ST Station. If they could basically do a better version of Centre St station here, I think it could do a lot to bring more vibrancy to the block since the location already has a ton of foot traffic nearby.
I would appreciate it if the old heritage buildings could be integrated into the development, but if they're too far gone or don't fit in the aesthetics of the building, that's alright if they're torn down. But don't make 7th ave an afterthought; it should be viewed as crucial as the south aspect of this proposal. I think 7th ave had a fair amount of potential of becoming a more urban corridor if more CRU's can be built along the avenue. There is the ability to bring more life to it in the nighttime and on weekends if effort is given.
This development could be a contributor to that if there's a good amount of retail and restaurants built on the north side. It should leverage direct access to the LRT, that by default has a lot of people going through the area. I think mentioned in here already that Centre Street station should be decommissioned, and built on this block to twin 1st ST Station. If they could basically do a better version of Centre St station here, I think it could do a lot to bring more vibrancy to the block since the location already has a ton of foot traffic nearby.
Disraeli
Active Member
These are my concerns that stick out after a month reflecting on this project.
In no particular order:
In no particular order:
- More office space??
- The risk of the heritage buildings getting torn down and the project stalling out like with what happened with the Bow South Block
- Zero care for restoring heritage buildings even with a density bonus program available
- The facade of the old Sport Chek is to be used as a glorified entrance way to their court yard thing in the back, so we will lose retail space on Stephan Ave and have a big opening where there was once active space. The Thai place is one thing, but this would be horrible
- They didn't even attempt to incorporate any of the heritage facades on 7th to help add character and break up the massing
- This is a massive block sized development in a CBD that desperately needs more (or to save) small, discrete buildings
- The developer isn't being transparent at all and there are no details about how they plan to contribute to DT diversification/ culture. This is strange as usually developers try to sell the project on different initiatives like space for arts and culture, or something a neighbourhood could really use like a movie theatre or grocery store. With this development, there hasn't been any attempt at contributing to the neighbourhood in any meaningful way apart from adding a shit ton of office space and residential units.
- Finally, why the 7th ave side is a little worse for wear, Stephan Ave is a healthy, vibrant street. We don't need this type of hamfisted development on Stephan Ave, especially when there is block upon block of parking lots to choose from
Aside from arguments about the podium and heritage buildings, just the basic idea that we are adding a bunch more office space to a core with 30% occupancy rate is a backward move. It is the literally the very last thing downtown needs.