[Surrealplaces]

An anchor tenant isn't required for the project to move forward.

So maybe they're considering residential only at this point?

From the angle of building new office space, of course nobody wants more office space development right now, but it brings up an interesting situation. Businesses still need the ability to choose office space space requirements that work for them, and in some cases it may require new builds. Denying any new builds could be a slippery slope.
A possible solution might be some sort of new office building levy, where the money is used toward subsidizing office conversions?

 

[ActiveTruth]

Put this where the Elbow River Hat is slated. I'll be okay with that.

This!

 

[maestro]

34 percent vacancy. I don't see how a business can't find space that meets their requirements. I agree that the city should not include themselves in the market . That doesn't include rezoning commercial to residential before applications have been submitted. If this developer wants to build spec office space than so be it. I'll believe it when I see it

 

[Chinese_T]

Well, it could always be worse... (Credit to Dreamstudio AI)

 

[Cowtown]

34 percent vacancy. I don't see how a business can't find space that meets their requirements. I agree that the city should not include themselves in the market . That doesn't include rezoning commercial to residential before applications have been submitted. If this developer wants to build spec office space than so be it. I'll believe it when I see it

At 34% it's not likely that someone would push for a new build, but it's not out of the realm of possibilities. Class AA space is only 16% vacancy rate, and none of the Existing Class AA buildings have enough free space to take on a new tenant as large as Suncor. Suncor would be crazy to go for a new build though, as it would be much cheaper to stay in the existing building, which is older, but not terribly old.

 

[ByeByeBaby]

So maybe they're considering residential only at this point?

From the angle of building new office space, of course nobody wants more office space development right now, but it brings up an interesting situation. Businesses still need the ability to choose office space space requirements that work for them, and in some cases it may require new builds. Denying any new builds could be a slippery slope.
A possible solution might be some sort of new office building levy, where the money is used toward subsidizing office conversions?

Not only are businesses unlikely to find anywhere in the 13,790,000 square feet of empty space to fit as unusual a use as a white collar office space -- which probably has crazy requirements like places for cubicles and boardrooms and offices that are totally unprecedented. I mean that sounds like a lot, but if they can't find something in the 2,684,380 square feet of the best space, they might have to settle for finding something in the 5,038,963 square feet of Class A space. What makes it worse the only possible location to build a new office in the entire downtown is by destroying a vital, pedestrian-oriented, active, federally listed heritage streetscape! If only there were dozens of surface lots in the downtown that a developer could use to fulfil the pressing need for new office space instead.

 

[Surrealplaces]

Not only are businesses unlikely to find anywhere in the 13,790,000 square feet of empty space to fit as unusual a use as a white collar office space -- which probably has crazy requirements like places for cubicles and boardrooms and offices that are totally unprecedented. I mean that sounds like a lot, but if they can't find something in the 2,684,380 square feet of the best space, they might have to settle for finding something in the 5,038,963 square feet of Class A space. What makes it worse the only possible location to build a new office in the entire downtown is by destroying a vital, pedestrian-oriented, active, federally listed heritage streetscape! If only there were dozens of surface lots in the downtown that a developer could use to fulfil the pressing need for new office space instead.

There is a lot of empty space downtown, and personally I don't want to see any more built either, but it's not that simple. If a company wants to be in Class AA space, there is 2.6 million square feet of it available, but suppose that company is Suncor, and they want to be the sole tenant in a class AA space, where are the going to locate to? There is no single building that has enough free class AA space for a company like Suncor, or even smaller companies if that company wants to be the sole tenant of a building. Not every company wants to have class A space or less. In a free market economy it should be their choice.

For the record, I'm not supporting the idea of new office space, especially on this particular lot, or any lot really, only that it brings up an interesting situation in the future if the city decides to deny an application for new office space based on there being lots of office space available. The city should deny this application because of other reasons such as the heritage buildings and Stephen Ave mall, and I'm all for that. I'm thinking it would be smart for the city to put in a policy now, that, if in the future a company wants to build new office space somewhere on an empty lot, they would need to put money into an office space conversion fund, so office space somewhere else can be converted.

 

[JoeUrban]

Any other info? Are they re-tooling and editing for a launch? They haven't even properly pitched this yet. Seems like everything is being done in secret trying to attract as little attention as possible.



The 7th Ave side will be an even bigger loss as they clearly plan to just bulldoze the whole thing. Those empty buildings add more to the urban fabric than whatever monstrous podium they plan on building. I miss the robo parkade!!!! At least that proposed preservation of the heritage buildings.

How about this. My understanding is the legal protection on the 7th ave side is facades only. Push them back 1-2m and build behind, widening the sidewalk so pedestrians can be further separated from the train, and retaining the architectural variety of the facades.

 

[artvandelay]

Not only are businesses unlikely to find anywhere in the 13,790,000 square feet of empty space to fit as unusual a use as a white collar office space -- which probably has crazy requirements like places for cubicles and boardrooms and offices that are totally unprecedented. I mean that sounds like a lot, but if they can't find something in the 2,684,380 square feet of the best space, they might have to settle for finding something in the 5,038,963 square feet of Class A space. What makes it worse the only possible location to build a new office in the entire downtown is by destroying a vital, pedestrian-oriented, active, federally listed heritage streetscape! If only there were dozens of surface lots in the downtown that a developer could use to fulfil the pressing need for new office space instead.

If only it was that simple, if you drill down into current availability there isn't a ton of contiguous space available to suit a large company - especially if they are looking for the large floorplate space that is currently en vogue. It is if for this reason I think we will see a new office development sooner than most are anticipating.

As far as this site goes, it will be redeveloped at some point and that's a good thing as right now half the block is vacant and derelict. That doesn't mean we can't maintain the lovely character defining elements of the block that contribute to it being a great streetscape. We just need to see a more thoughtful design - the Woodward's redevelopment is a great place to start from.

 

[YYCguy]

Woodwards redevelopment? As in the former department store? Where is that?

 

[artvandelay]

Woodwards redevelopment? As in the former department store? Where is that?

It's in Vancouver - a good template to follow for the redevelopment of an important heritage block. Link.

 

[YYCguy]

Thanks for clarifying! I guess I should get up to speed on other cities’ developments too!

 

[artvandelay]

Thanks for clarifying! I guess I should get up to speed on other cities’ developments too!

Sorry - could have been more specific.

 

[O-tac]

If only it was that simple, if you drill down into current availability there isn't a ton of contiguous space available to suit a large company - especially if they are looking for the large floorplate space that is currently en vogue. It is if for this reason I think we will see a new office development sooner than most are anticipating.

As far as this site goes, it will be redeveloped at some point and that's a good thing as right now half the block is vacant and derelict. That doesn't mean we can't maintain the lovely character defining elements of the block that contribute to it being a great streetscape. We just need to see a more thoughtful design - the Woodward's redevelopment is a great place to start from.

Isn't the entire Nexen building and most of Husky towers empty? Also not sure if Woodward's is a good example. Didn't they bulldoze the heritage structures and only kept facades?

 

[JonnyCanuck]

For those holding out hope that the building envelopes for those structures on both 8th and 7th Ave (there is also a back alley between all of them to deal with) will be retained, is just not realistic. Whatever the developer wants to achieve for that block cannot be accomplished by salvaging everything.