Edmcowboy11
Senior Member
Well as long as they maintain possession of the land around the new facility, it would be in their best interests to at least build with provisions of future expansion.
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- Thread starter Daveography
- Start date
TravellingChris
Active Member
Yes. Bombardier did the job at its facility in Bath, New York.
TravellingChris
Active Member
I'm assuming they'll be going with the same S200s that Calgary bought?
TravellingChris
Active Member
Sohi basically said the same thing I did: it makes zero sense to be running trains through a neighbourhood and not having anywhere residents can board. The line isn't being relocated, so Twin Brooks may as well get some use out of it.
EdwardEdm
Active Member
It will go for tender and the proponent judged by the City to be providing the best, compliant vehicle will win. Just because Siemens has been supplying high floors, Edmonton awarded the low floor order to Rotem, and Calgary's low floor cars went to CAF with Siemens losing Calgary and I don't think they even bid on Edmonton.
cliffapotamus
Active Member
I remember the proposal for the Blatchford extension included (at one point prior to construction start, so this may have changed) 6 new SD160s, to match the existing fleet. I'm speculating here, but i wouldn't be surprised if the city went with more SD160s as opposed to the SD200s. matching the existing fleet makes maintenance easier, and as much as the SD160s are dull little tin cans compared to the U2s, they get the job done, are a proven vehicle, and lack some of the more problematic features of the SD200s. When first introduced, which was done in San Francisco, the SD200s had major issues with couplers and their doors. Those were largely resolved for Calgary's batch, but i can't help but see red flags with all the blinky lights and screens on the SD200s Calgary has. A simpler vehicle would quite capably get the job done.
TravellingChris
Active Member
I'd be surprised if they didn't stick with Siemens for the two high-floor lines. Already complexity has been introduced into the low-floor Valley Line with two different trains from two different manufacturers, and I foresee difficulties there. Remember Calgary will only be dealing with two manufacturers for its three lines: Siemens and CAF. Edmonton already will be dealing with three for its three lines: Siemens, Bombardier and Hyundai Rotem.
fromyeg
Active Member
And Bombardier has been acquired by Alstom since the delivery of our current fleet of Flexity Freedoms. No idea if that complicates things at all or makes it more difficult to repair our (unfortunately) frequently damaged trains.
SumAqua
New Member
So I sent an email expressing the concerns mentioned here and wondering if it was possible to get additional funding to make use of the original plans. That email got forwarded to the LRT department and this was the response:
Hello,
Thank you for sharing your concerns with us regarding the LRT crossing at Ellerslie Road for the Capital Line South LRT extension. For context, we’ve provided some background information about the crossing at Ellerslie Road below.
In 2020, the City reviewed the Ellerslie intersection as a part of the City of Edmonton’s Crossing Assessment Framework. The framework found that grade separation at this crossing performs better than at-grade from a network operations perspective, as LRT and vehicle traffic would be separated. However, the framework also showed that an at-grade crossing performs better with regards to urban design and feasibility, and construction metrics. After full consideration of the framework, Administration recommended grade separation, and Council approved an elevated crossing in 2020.
However, due to significant budget pressures since then, our project team had to re-assess this crossing, and we prepared an updated traffic study based on two different traffic scenarios for Ellerslie Road: a 4-lane configuration, and a 6-lane configuration. These two scenarios were then tested with an at-grade LRT crossing. The study indicates the traffic intersection will perform at an acceptable level with an at-grade crossing (based on anticipated traffic levels in 2050). Worst-case scenarios indicate potential traffic delays of 20-30 seconds at peak hours for a 4-lane scenario, and 10-25 second traffic delays in a 6-lane scenario.
On May 16, 2023, City Council approved Administration’s recommendation to build an at-grade Heritage Valley North station as a part of Phase 1 of the project (this station will be just north of Ellerslie Road). This is where Phase 1 of the project will end (in roughly 2028-2029; subject to change). Phase 1 of the project does not cross Ellerslie Road.
As you mentioned, on May 16, Administration was directed to provide a cost analysis report for future construction of a grade-separated Ellerslie Road of the LRT crossing between 127 Street and 135 Street. This will be a cost analysis for Ellerslie Road to potentially go over, or under, the at-grade LRT tracks. We anticipate this cost analysis will be discussed with Council in mid-2024. This cost analysis is only intended to present information to Council, and will not involve making a final decision about grade separation. That decision will be made at a future date.
So, in summary, a final decision has not been made yet about whether or not Ellerslie Road will be grade separated in the future from the LRT tracks. The decision that has been made is that Heritage Valley North Station will be built at-grade.
In terms of funding, the City of Edmonton regularly has conversations with the federal and provincial governments surrounding large-scale infrastructure projects that include future phases of LRT expansions. So, it is possible that funding for grade separation may become available in the future, but that is not known at this point.
Thanks,
LRT projects team
Hello,
Thank you for sharing your concerns with us regarding the LRT crossing at Ellerslie Road for the Capital Line South LRT extension. For context, we’ve provided some background information about the crossing at Ellerslie Road below.
In 2020, the City reviewed the Ellerslie intersection as a part of the City of Edmonton’s Crossing Assessment Framework. The framework found that grade separation at this crossing performs better than at-grade from a network operations perspective, as LRT and vehicle traffic would be separated. However, the framework also showed that an at-grade crossing performs better with regards to urban design and feasibility, and construction metrics. After full consideration of the framework, Administration recommended grade separation, and Council approved an elevated crossing in 2020.
However, due to significant budget pressures since then, our project team had to re-assess this crossing, and we prepared an updated traffic study based on two different traffic scenarios for Ellerslie Road: a 4-lane configuration, and a 6-lane configuration. These two scenarios were then tested with an at-grade LRT crossing. The study indicates the traffic intersection will perform at an acceptable level with an at-grade crossing (based on anticipated traffic levels in 2050). Worst-case scenarios indicate potential traffic delays of 20-30 seconds at peak hours for a 4-lane scenario, and 10-25 second traffic delays in a 6-lane scenario.
On May 16, 2023, City Council approved Administration’s recommendation to build an at-grade Heritage Valley North station as a part of Phase 1 of the project (this station will be just north of Ellerslie Road). This is where Phase 1 of the project will end (in roughly 2028-2029; subject to change). Phase 1 of the project does not cross Ellerslie Road.
As you mentioned, on May 16, Administration was directed to provide a cost analysis report for future construction of a grade-separated Ellerslie Road of the LRT crossing between 127 Street and 135 Street. This will be a cost analysis for Ellerslie Road to potentially go over, or under, the at-grade LRT tracks. We anticipate this cost analysis will be discussed with Council in mid-2024. This cost analysis is only intended to present information to Council, and will not involve making a final decision about grade separation. That decision will be made at a future date.
So, in summary, a final decision has not been made yet about whether or not Ellerslie Road will be grade separated in the future from the LRT tracks. The decision that has been made is that Heritage Valley North Station will be built at-grade.
In terms of funding, the City of Edmonton regularly has conversations with the federal and provincial governments surrounding large-scale infrastructure projects that include future phases of LRT expansions. So, it is possible that funding for grade separation may become available in the future, but that is not known at this point.
Thanks,
LRT projects team
Stevey_G
Active Member
Same story as Bonnie Doon
TravellingChris
Active Member
Exactly.
The only reason that Bonnie Doon isn't yet a total disaster is because the line isn't in revenue service. The only hope we can have for the Ellerslie Road crossing now is that this expansion is delayed from entering service for years like the Valley Line Southeast.
Glenco
Senior Member
Get used to trams crossing
TravellingChris
Active Member
In 2035 when the line finally opens.
EdmTrekker
Senior Member
And why we need the private sector to manage LRT planning, building and operating.
