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Re: Waterfront winner chosen

I dont see why playing off of Canadian imagery is such a scary thing. Cities in Holland are unmistakingly Dutch. Why shouldn't Canadian cities look the part?
because their idea of canadian waterfront is some wilderness lake in cottage country. toronto isn't bancroft.

that said, i like most of the west8 proposal. i also like foster's canals to front street - i don't know how that would be implemented but it's a great idea.
 
Re: Waterfront winner chosen

If we just get over the selling and marketing point of the plan, namely that we should aim to look like "some wilderness lake in cottage country", then everything will be fine. The tree-lined areas could easily be in Paris or Spain. Look at what is done, rather than what is said.

I think the point that our country is capable of natural beauty, yet our waterfront lacks much of that beauty, is a valid one.
 
Re: Waterfront winner chosen

^i am looking past the selling, that's why i said i liked the plan.
 
Re: Waterfront winner chosen

I know. The post was not really a response to your post and kudos to you for seeing past the words.
 
Re: Waterfront winner chosen

They've said the streetcar would be staying put, almost certainly for cost reasons.

Wow... the obstacles are already being put up at the same time the plan was announced then. So if the streetcar doesn't move, the businesses and residents complain about a lack of a lane for short term parking, pick-up, and drop-offs, the large floating maple leaves get in the way of boat movements especially since moving the ferry docks is too expensive, and bridges which lift to allow the fireboat or police boats are too expensive then what might be left of the plan? Anyone know there a large leafed Maple tree is... I can pick a few leaves off and throw them into the water and we can move on to a plan really cheap and lacklustre. I suppose I am too cynical after the whole St.Clair streetcar thing... I mean if that runs into obstacles then look at the obstacles on this one... including three levels of government and possibly the Port Authority. Yikes.
 
Re: Waterfront winner chosen

I mean the archiect did not propose moving the LRT line on Queens Quay, probably for cost reasons. It wasn't decided by the city as a result of public pressure.
 
Re: Waterfront winner chosen

residents complain about a lack of a lane for short term parking, pick-up, and drop-offs,
I went to the press conference and there was already one irate condo owner complaining to everyone that would listen about how everyone was now going to use his condo building's property as the front door to Toronto's waterfront and that it wasn't fair. He lives near the current Ferry Terminal and was complaining about the continuous boardwalk and a variety of other things (including the removal of a lane of traffic). He didn't seem to get the fact that the waterfront belongs to ALL Torontonions. In other words, stay tuned.

Anyway, a few pics from the event:

TWRC C.E.O. John Campbell.
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Federal President of the Treasury Board John Baird.
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Mayor David Miller.
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Some of the people in attendance.
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The winning bid being congratulated.
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The model. The bubble-thing is a concept for an iconic building at the foot of Jarvis Street.
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More model...
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I think the big leaf would be permanent and the little ones would be towed into storage each Autumn. Not sold on the leaf concept personally.
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Re: Waterfront winner chosen

Fantastic shots Darkstar! It feels like your actually there!...lol

Louroz
 
Re: Waterfront winner chosen

Personally, I'm thrilled the plan calls for the Gardiner to go, but for that lil' ol' curving ramp on York Street to stay. I always thought the ramp was an unexpectedly wonderful piece of urban sculpture.
 
Re: Waterfront winner chosen

Wow... the obstacles are already being put up at the same time the plan was announced then. So if the streetcar doesn't move, the businesses and residents complain about a lack of a lane for short term parking, pick-up, and drop-offs, the large floating maple leaves get in the way of boat movements especially since moving the ferry docks is too expensive, and bridges which lift to allow the fireboat or police boats are too expensive then what might be left of the plan? Anyone know there a large leafed Maple tree is... I can pick a few leaves off and throw them into the water and we can move on to a plan really cheap and lacklustre. I suppose I am too cynical after the whole St.Clair streetcar thing... I mean if that runs into obstacles then look at the obstacles on this one... including three levels of government and possibly the Port Authority. Yikes.

I believe their proposal was created with the current streetcar setup in mind. It's supposed to stay where it is. That is one of the appealing aspects of their proposal (assuming I'm not mistaken and thinking of another proposal, of course).
 
Re: Waterfront winner chosen

^ That is what I originally thought too but it shows two traffic lanes and a parking lane in the cross section which is impossible in most places. Without a lane to stop and run into Starbucks, Rabba, or quickly drop-off or pick-up people living in the condos there will be resistance. I would be surprised if this plan moves ahead quickly. There will be a power struggle with various levels of government trying to take credit and lay blame, condo owners along the water up in arms about the people now outside their window, cost issues, traffic issues, etc. Unlike the East Bayfront plan which could probably move ahead quite quickly this one will probably be slow going.
 
Re: Waterfront winner chosen

Thanks for the shots :)

I like the leaf idea, but they only need the big leaf.
I do hope for the gardiner to be gone, and lakeshore blvd turned into the "Champs-Elysées" style like it was mentioned.

I wonder what day they'll release the full listing for deadlines and such. More news is coming within the next few weeks apprently :)
 
Re: Waterfront winner chosen

Meanwhile, construction of the waterfront promenade continues at John Quay, with most of it done. And HtO Park is progressing nicely - last night I saw that large willows have been planted, and other trees have been delivered for planting.

Grand schemes or not, Toronto is being redefined by the places where it meets the lake.
 
Re: Waterfront winner chosen

Article by Lisa Rochon in the Globe:

CITYSPACE: TORONTO'S WATERFRONT: PART ONE
A Dutch treat at water's edge
West 8's winning design is a marvel of clarity and credibility, writes LISA ROCHON. But is the city prepared to pay for it?

LISA ROCHON

Cities are giant receptacles for the inexplicable. War, floods, wildcat strikes -- there are unpredictable events that regularly hurl themselves at a city until the unfathomable is over and people return to smaller incidents of mortification.

It is inexplicable that the Toronto waterfront began as a gentle harbour -- a clearing in the oak forest -- and has ended up as a tortured, fractured settlement of industry and brutish residential towers on asphalt. It is inexplicable that while politicians have been mouthing the words "waterfront revitalization" over the last century, permits have been given to developers to plunk down their buildings next to the water's edge. Premium views for a minuscule fraction of the population have been achieved. Public space arranged between the cracks of the sidewalk is what the rest of the city gets.

But something wonderful and explicable has occurred. An international design competition organized to provide a seamless experience of pedestrian pleasures along Toronto's central waterfront has been run without a hitch. A winning team from Rotterdam and Toronto that thinks both poetically and practically has been selected. It is unfathomable to think optimistically about the water's edge, but this time, we must.

West 8, an urban-design and landscape-architecture firm based in Rotterdam, in joint venture with the Toronto firm of du Toit Allsopp Hillier Architects, has designed the winning scheme. As a way of stitching together the central waterfront of Toronto, the West 8 scheme is a marvel of clarity and credibility. Four elements distinguish the proposal: a wide granite boardwalk that runs along the quays from the foot of Bathurst Street to the southern edge of Jarvis Street; a Douglas-fir boardwalk cantilevered from the sides of the quays; undulating pedestrian bridges that return a sense of rough-hewn romance to the waterfront and, finally, a humanized Queens Quay Boulevard, intelligently reconfigured so that people figure as much as cars. The Queens Quay move is an attempt to connect Toronto to an international trend of widening sidewalks and providing streets for people to walk, bike or rollerblade along. The scheme proposes reducing the four traffic lanes of Queens Quay to a two-way road located north of the streetcar tracks. There would be allées of maple trees used to separate the Martin Goodman bike trail and a pedestrian path in granite. Decent, uncorrupted public space -- it's taken decades to get to these uncomplicated truths.

West 8 shot to fame with its crisply detailed design of the Schouwburgplein (1996), a raised, animated plaza with long wooden benches that is surrounded by shops and cinemas in Rotterdam. West 8 principal Adriaan Geuze is currently working on a master plan for London's Olympic Village. In Madrid, his firm is designing a six-kilometre linear park along the riverbank.

In Toronto to be presented with the commission, Geuze asks a simple, uncomplicated question: "How can the Toronto waterfront be so tiny, so small in scale?" With Geuze comes a childlike determination to get on with the project -- "whereas, in Toronto," says his joint-venture partner John Hillier, "we see a forest of problems that aren't solvable. That's the perspective the Dutch team has brought to this. They just don't see the difficulty of doing it."

The scheme, to borrow from poet John Keats, gives us light on the shores of darkness.

The problem is that the $20-million budget is not enough to build all four of West 8's significant ideas.

This may come as a surprise to Mayor David Miller, but Bill Boyle, Harbourfront Centre's CEO, speaks from reality. He says his 2003 initiative to upgrade the pedestrian walkways extending out from Harbourfront has cost $18.6-million; the money covered the costs of repaving the walkways stretching from the Power Plant over to York Quay -- in concrete, not granite. Hillier, principal of du Toit Allsopp Hillier charged with the waterfront project, estimates that about $15-million is required to cover just the redesign of a short section of the Queens Quay esplanade from the Toronto Music Garden near the foot of Bathurst to York Quay.

The five timber bridges that would allow visitors to travel uninterrupted along the water's edge rather than having to double back along the quays, would also cost about $1-million each, says ARUP engineer David Pratt, the team's cost analyst. But they are an important design feature: Besides providing a seamless continuum, they offer the only vertical animation in the scheme in the way they undulate over the water.

Still, although more dollars will have to be found, there should never be enough to finance the startling kitsch elements that found their way into the West 8 scheme -- the notion of temporary bio-remediation reefs (made of plant materials that clean water) carved in the shape of the maple leaf, the brass-balls building conceived of as handy new digs for UNESCO, the floating Chinese pagoda restaurant at the foot of Spadina. Let these ideas be returned to the Dutch -- in the shape of a tulip.

From the start, the Toronto Waterfront Revitalization Corp. (TWRC) competition emphasized the need for simple, elegant solutions. The rich lake life of the Toronto waterfront must be supported, said jury chair Brigitte Shim during the press conference at the foot of York Quay. "Any permanent intrusions into the harbour were seen to be problematic." That eliminated the scheme of New York's esteemed Tod Williams and Billie Tsien, who recommended a gigantic new island off the edge of the mainland.

What's missing from the West 8 scheme is a strong vertical gesture to counter the heavy grey fog imposed by the unremarkable group of condominiums now crowding the waterfront. London's renowned firm, Foster and Partners, another short-listed competitor, was onto something with its white water-droplet monuments designed to float slightly offshore on extended piers. They were elegant, but laboured under their own stylized self-importance -- and obviously expensive to build. The scheme from PORT, a collective of architects from around the world, offered an ambitious and enchanting smorgasbord, and the sweeping ice rink thrust out into the lake still stands as one of the competition's most remarkable ideas.

But, too much of a good thing is not what the waterfront needs now. It's time for action. Mayor Miller wants the shovels in the ground to prove his mettle, pre-election, as a defender of the waterfront. A genuine enthusiasm for the project can be detected from both the province and Ottawa. A fresh breeze has blown in from the lake. Build immediately, while the faith holds.

The conclusion of Lisa Rochon's two-part series on the Toronto waterfront will appear on June 22.

AoD
 
I didn't particularly like West 8's proposal, but it was better than the others...the lesser of 5 evils. I hope everyone involved soon realizes how stupid the leaf islands are so they can be scrapped and forgotten.
 

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