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mgl said:
I think a condo at 580/584 is a good idea. 584 Church is not not heritage worthy in my opinion. The facade is nice, but inside it's been gutted so many times.
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Actually, heritage listings/designations *do* typically focus upon the facade--only in exceptional circumstances are the interiors covered. By your parameters, our existing heritage inventory might as well be reduced by a third or more...
 
I know heritage designations focus on the facade -- I live in a heritage district and I put a lot of work into keeping our house maintained both inside and out. There is something worth preserving about our house because previous owners have also kept it up. But if you walk inside 584 Church, you won't find anything worth preserving. You might as well do a facadectomy. It was probably a fine building once, but I don't believe it's worth saving just because it's an old building.
 
How do we fight this? Is there anything an average citizen can do?
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Write to Kyle Rae to urge designation - he is on the Heritage Toronto board. Designation will protect it.

These building are more than just bricks and mortar - it's about the stories behind them and the fact that they add greatly to the streetscape. And as another poster pointed out, it's one of the last groupings of heritage buildings in that particular neighbourhood. And you think what will replace it will be worthy of the space?

"A building, structure or site may be considered important for a variety of reasons. It may have architectural value or it may relate to a significant person, an important event in the history of the city or a critical time in the development of one of its neighbourhoods. A building may be well crafted or represent a characteristic of the community. A building does not have to be "old" to be an important heritage property. Many modern buildings and structures such as Roy Thomson Hall and the CN Tower are significant parts of our heritage and are symbols of our city. Nor does a property have to be a grand public building - small cottages, warehouses, industrial structures and bridges are also valuable legacies of the past and deserve to be protected and preserved."
 
I'm being presumptious, but if a condo were to be built on this land I would suspect that it would make use of pretty much the entire space almost to the street. Right now, the "front lawns" of these old houses create an openness and airiness. It "feels good" sitting on the patio of Fuzion. It's only a block away from Church & Wellesley. I don't think every major intersection needs to have building density.
 
Found a bit more information on the City website. It is clear from this that they plan to demolish the entire block of buildings :(

OPA / Rezoning 10 149004 STE 27 OZ 580 CHURCH ST Apr 9, 2010 Application Submitted Apr 9, 2010 Ward-27
South-District Residential Apartments 619 16260 16879 193 2335 --- --- ---
Zoning by law amendment applciation to permit the demolition of the existing buildings on the lands for the purposes of a new development consisting of a 25 storey tower atop a 7 storey podium building containing the replacement of 35 rental dwelling units located in the existing buildings, and an additional 158 residential dwelling units. Refer to related folder for rental residential demolition control application.
 
Peepers said:
I don't know who the developer is but I recall some discussion about this a while back (cant find the thread) and from what I recall the entire block from Dundonald to Gloucester is owned by one company which makes me suspect that the entire block would be demolished for this condo. This would be a crime since this is arguably the most attractive stretch of heritage buildings left standing in the Village.
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Here's the thread where the discussion began, it continues on pages 35 & 36

http://urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?5147-The-(Church-Wellesley)-Village/page34
 
mgl said:
I know heritage designations focus on the facade -- I live in a heritage district and I put a lot of work into keeping our house maintained both inside and out. There is something worth preserving about our house because previous owners have also kept it up. But if you walk inside 584 Church, you won't find anything worth preserving. You might as well do a facadectomy. It was probably a fine building once, but I don't believe it's worth saving just because it's an old building.
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To be honest--it wouldn't matter, anyway, whether there was anything worth preserving inside, because the likelihood of its interior covered under a listing would be slim-to-nil. As would be the case, for that matter, for most of what exists within your heritage district, whatever your loving/caring decision viz. your own house. Yes, even preexisting total gut jobs within your neighbourhood wouldn't be invalidated as "heritage"--if there's nothing worth preserving inside, it doesn't make it a worthless knockdown, especially if what remains still contributes positively to the streetscape.

So, in this case, even if it's little more than a facadectomy in practice, there's still a good argument for listing/designation and retention, as part of an ensemble rather than as a prima-donna landmark. And as you can tell from this discussion, it's about an urban ensemble rather than about prima donnas under threat.

I mean, I know what you're getting at, because the heritage community is very mixed about the facadism gambit. But let's not get hyper about it; by your logic, the retained Yonge storefronts of BCE/Brookfield Place are expendable because they're just shells, rather than "complete entities" a la the Bank of Montreal/HHOF...
 
So, I talked to a friend involved in this application, and he has assured me that as part of the proposal, the Fuzion house is to remain, and be enhanced. My guess it we're talking about something similar to the Cooper Mansion.
 
Roy G Biv said:
So, I talked to a friend involved in this application, and he has assured me that as part of the proposal, the Fuzion house is to remain, and be enhanced. My guess it we're talking about something similar to the Cooper Mansion.
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What about the other properties, 584 Church Street (Catherine Collard House), 592 Church Street (Wallace Millichamp House) & 596 Church Street (Gloucester Mansions)?
 
went to crews on friday...essentially the same interior structurally however a few nicer accessories here and there

only complaint, and it's a big one, is the line ups.....both the upstairs and back room had large lines....before the place closed down i don't remember them making lines to get into these areas, even when they were at capacity...not sure if this is a new zoning thing or the idea of the club but lots of people walked in, saw the lines, and walked back out again
 
Like you torontobarfly, I made my way to Crews on Friday night. We got there around 10pm and the lineup outside had at least 100 people in it. My friends and I waited 5 minutes, saw that the line wasn't moving, and went to Fly instead lol. Interestingly, my friends who had already gotten into Crews ended up coming to Fly later that evening. They too were disappointed with the line ups. One friend described there being line ups to get into the club, to get your coat checked, to buy a drink, to move to the upstairs floor, to move to the back, to get into the washrooms, etc etc. At the same time I heard the club didn't even seem at all full, so they were super frustrated. Can you blame them? Apparently the upstairs capacity is only 77. Ugh.
 
Elevate now open, but doesn't appear to have a lot of business. They don't appear to be marketing themselves at all.
 
Elevate is bound to fail. Their business plan is no different from previous tenants. Just because you change the name and have a bang opening party doesn't mean it will survive.
 
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