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Maybe I've got it wrong, but I don't think so.

The exemption to which you refer is on the PST, not the GST. Everyone at every level in the supply chain pays the GST on their purchases and collects the GST on their sales. When they pay the government their collections they deduct the tax they paid. I presume the HST will be handled the same way.

My wife gives her GST number to her wholesaler. The wholesaler doesn't collect GST. My wife then doesn't claim the deduction.
GST stuff

If your wife's Canadian wholesaler is a small operation (annual sales less than $30,000) he can opt out of collecting the GST even though he still has to pay it on his purchases.

This can be an advantageous position for a part time business that buys very little tangible goods and sells a service such as counselling or managing a website.

I also understand that a Canadian vendor who takes orders that are shipped to his customers from a US location doesn't pay or collect GST, not sure how it works but I have been told it does.
If your wife's Canadian wholesaler is a small operation (annual sales less than $30,000) he can opt out of collecting the GST even though he still has to pay it on his purchases.
True (is it still $30,000 ... I thought that was what it was in 1991!?) ... but then I wouldn't think they wouldn't be asking for a GST number from their customers.
If you were enter into an agreement at present with closing post July 2010 will the HST be applicable? I know there isn't a definitive answer here but does anyone have any insight?
If you were enter into an agreement at present with closing post July 2010 will the HST be applicable? I know there isn't a definitive answer here but does anyone have any insight?

That's the million dollar question! We're still waiting to hear from the province, but, most people agree McGuinty will probably "grandfather" the rules which will only apply to signed "purchases" after July, 2010. For example, if you purchase pre-construction before July 2010 (but built later), you should be ok.

If not, there'll be hell to pay. :mad:

Are you telling me that the construction of new facilities are not capital costs and that hydro is?

I have always thought that hydro was a operating expense, just as rent, water, phone, internet, wages, etc would be. Guess you learn something new every day.

As to what a companies actual capital costs are, you can find that out from any annual report.

For me, what I learned was two things. The above mentioned, and that I blow smoke out of my ass (did you know how talented a trick that actually is?).

IMHO that last bit from you was not necessary. If you had a problem with what I was saying, than fine, but if you want to be an arrogant ass, do it on somebody elses time. I'm here to provide my input, and if it is incorrect, to learn from my mistakes, accept them, and move on. You on the other hand, clearly have no problem with attempts at being an internet intimidator. Maybe you should get off the green oval down there in the gully and brush up on business terminology.

You know absolutely nothing about me or what I know. Therefore, before you throw out insults like that (sorry, opinions. Humble ones at that), consider your audience. Although, I may be new around here, I will respond in kind. I would say that when it comes to the operations of a business I probably know a heck of a lot more than you would be able to acknowledge.

You clearly did not understand what I was saying because your Riverdale mind was too stuck in a neighbourhood of small business land. Or maybe your thoughts were being over shadowed by the construction that has been and continues at Regent Park. Either way, what I was saying, and what your narrow approach to commercial (which includes retail) business failed to understand is, what small business is going to relocate from the 416 to the 905 and (do you need the 'and' underlined?) build a new building? I would say few and far between. A move like that would generally be one of a larger operational scale. Therefore, your small business approach really has no relevance on the original point that I was making (as my point was not directed to the under $30,000 earner businesses). When they pay for capital projects, they will be paying the HST on every aspect of the project. Once those costs have been determined, the price of goods/services provided will increase. As a consumer of goods/services, those increases will be passed on to us on the goods/services purchased. Therefore we, as a consumer society, will be paying more at the end of the day. Not 6%, it will wind up being more than than. IE: Increase inflationary concerns.

So your wife does the GST thing the way she does. That's fine. But her wholesaler pays the GST on the goods when they come into the country (as very little is GST exempt upon importation into Canada). So any which way you cut it, someone is paying the GST and then getting it back once the goods have been sold on to another business. Small and generally underproductive businesses use this practice because it is considerably easier for both a wholesaler to keep a list of the GST numbers of those clients and then just do a cost adjustment of their own records, as well as the business owner because it just means less time consuming paperwork. Consider it a favour that they do for their clients.


I'm not certain on your statement, but are you thinking duties. Like I said above, GST is charged on almost anything. General rule of thumb is that if you don't pay GST on it in the store when you buy it, they don't pay GST to bring it here. But almost all goods that are purchased from the US and have a certificate of origin stating they were made in the US come into Canada duty free as per NAFTA.


I would like to believe what you wish for in a grandfathered status (as it would be what is best for everyone in the province), but I can't hold my breath on the thought of McGuinty doing something that truly benefits the people.
Ontario Supports More Homebuyers
June 19, 2009

McGuinty Government Proposes Measures for New Housing
The McGuinty government is proposing measures that would build on the comprehensive tax package announced in the 2009 Ontario Budget:

Enhanced new housing rebate - The province would enhance the new housing rebate so that new homes across all price ranges would receive a 75 per cent rebate of the provincial portion of the single sales tax on the first $400,000. For new homes under $400,000, this would mean, on average, no additional tax amount compared to the current system.

New rental housing rebate - Similar to the enhanced new housing rebate, the province is proposing a rebate for new residential rental properties. This proposed rebate would support affordable rental housing across Ontario.

Transitional rules - The province is also proposing transitional rules for new housing. Generally, as part of the transitional rules, sales of new homes under written agreements of purchase and sale entered into on or before June 18, 2009 would not be subject to the provincial portion of the single sales tax, even if both ownership and possession are transferred on or after July 1, 2010. The tax would also not apply to sales of new homes under written agreements of purchase and sale entered into after June 18, 2009 where ownership or possession is transferred before July 1, 2010.
Dumb, the entire idea of the HST was that it was supposed to be simpler and fairer. This tax credit after rebate after exemption approach to the tax code never ends well. We will end up like the USA where the nominal tax rate applies to absolutely no one.
I don't disagree ... but if McGuinty doesn't work to make the new HST appear just a merger of 2 existing taxes to simplify things, rather than new taxes, then he's likely going to pay, and we'd end up seeing a Conservative government.

In most of Ontario you'd be into a very significant house before you start triggering extra taxes ... hardly Liberal supporters. And in Toronto ... well it's not like they'll be voting Tory. :)

I'm just waiting to see what happens when people realise that there will be a new 8% tax on gasoline ... but I wouldn't be surprised if they end up reducing the current 14.7% tax to 7.4% to make revenue neutral, to reduce complaints.
All Ontario new home buyers to get 75% rebate on PST on first $400,000

TORONTO — Ontario's Liberal government embarked Friday on a costly climb-down from part of its plan to harmonize the provincial sales tax with the GST, promising rebates of up to $24,000 for all new-home buyers, even if they purchase a multi-million dollar mansion.

Originally, the rebates first announced in the March budget were to apply only to new homes costing $400,000 or less.

They were intended to offset the fact the new 13 per cent harmonized sales tax would apply to new homes, which are currently exempt from the eight per cent PST.

However, all new-home buyers will now qualify for the PST rebate on the first $400,000 of the purchase price, regardless of the final cost.

So, you still pay 2% PST (built into HST) on the first $400,000. This doesn't increase the level of taxation on new homes, however, since the PST built into materials and other inputs for new homes is included in the price, whereas the HST will be claimed by the builder and paid outside the purchase price by the homebuyer. This works out to be a wash, as this built in PST works out to about 2% of purchase price.
I'm glad they came to their senses. May as well go the next reasonable step then, and lower the HST to 12% or perhaps even 12.5%. They can keep their up front lump sum bribe.