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The provincial tories have now started their own "attack website", similar to Ignatieff.me:

Dalton Sales Tax

Well, apart from being absolutely redicilous, it is also hilarious, and it just made my day. Seriously, the Cons always use misinformation to gain power.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
^ There's some truth to provincial tory complaints about the taxes McGuinty has brought in....and that's less of an 'attack' ad since it targets his record in office. However, the federal Conservative website is largely a personal attack against Ignatieff and a bunch of lines taken out of context. I have no problems with the opposition questioning a politician's record in office (that's why oppositions exist). I do have a problem with a governing party spending all its time criticizing the leader of the opposition instead of governing.
 
Conservatives in Canada: Are they anti-Quebec?

Everyone: I read thru this topic and am I correct in asking this question:

Are the Conservatives anti-Quebec in any way?

The reason why I ask is that it seems to me that the more right-wing English Canadians-especially those who were involved with the old Reform Party in the Western Provinces being very anti-Quebec do I recall correctly?

How strong is the Quebec will to secede from Canada today?
Is the Bloc Quebecois strongly for a separate Quebec compared to the Parti Quebecois in the past?

I hope that Canada stays together myself-the nation will never be the same if Quebec were to secede!

Thoughts and opinions by Long Island Mike
 
The provincial tories have now started their own "attack website", similar to Ignatieff.me:

Dalton Sales Tax

Well, apart from being absolutely redicilous, it is also hilarious, and it just made my day. Seriously, the Cons always use misinformation to gain power.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Wow, is the OPC having trouble raising money? That's an incredibly ugly website. Like, worse than that "I kiss you!" dude's website.
 
Everyone: I read thru this topic and am I correct in asking this question:

Are the Conservatives anti-Quebec in any way?

Sort of. The Conservatives actually made major in-roads into Quebec in the 2006 election (when they got their first Minority government). It was actually a combination of Quebec support and the the strengthened support in the 905 that put Harper into office.

The Conservatives got 10 seats in that contest, which was huge and IIRC something not a lot of pundits expected. They saw the same result in the 2008 election.

However, our parliamentary crisis this past fall in which the Liberals, NDP and Bloc Quebecois threatened to form a coalition and assume control of government saw the Conservatives react by slandering the Bloc's involvement. Essentially, the Cons used the fact that the Liberals were working with 'separatists' (and 'socialists', in the NDP) as leverage in an attempt to ensure voters in the Rest of Canada would disapprove of the coalition.

(There are other things as well, such as Harper's cuts to the arts, that contribute to Quebec being no fan of the CPC.)

The CPC is now polling between 9-10% support in Quebec, down from 25% at their peak. They've lost over half their support in that province and have, I think, given up on it.

How strong is the Quebec will to secede from Canada today?

Not that strong. Quebec has had a liberal (non-separatist) government at the provincial level for years now, and federally the Liberals are about even with the Bloc in current polling.

I don't think the will to separate is there. Quebecois still very much want to retain their uniqueness within Canada, however.

Is the Bloc Quebecois strongly for a separate Quebec compared to the Parti Quebecois in the past?

Neither has really talked much about a referendum in recent years, which is the necessary precursor to sovereignty.
 
The provincial tories have now started their own "attack website", similar to Ignatieff.me:

Dalton Sales Tax

Well, apart from being absolutely redicilous, it is also hilarious, and it just made my day. Seriously, the Cons always use misinformation to gain power.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Wow, the utter hyprocrasy of the Tories blows my mind. They are the ones who have been pushing for the harmonization; it was a former provincial Tory finance minister who masterminded the whole thing! Astounding - do they really think votes are that stupid ... I guess they know their constituency though ...
 
^ There will always be differences between the provincial and federal arms of any political party. At the end of the day the provincial opposition will have to do what it takes to get elected, including slagging a policy of their federal cousins.

In this particular case, I don't know why anybody would find the website surprising or troubling. It is based on fact. McGuinty did break his promise about taxes. And the so-called health premium did not get earmarked for health care (yes they did spend more on health care but it is sneaky to call something a health care premium and then throw it into general revenue). And the HST will significantly raise the cost of goods and services. I don't find it to be deplorable that an opposition party would trumpet those facts. I would expect the Liberals to do the same if they were in opposition.
 
And the HST will significantly raise the cost of goods and services. I don't find it to be deplorable that an opposition party would trumpet those facts. I would expect the Liberals to do the same if they were in opposition.

Some goods and services.
 
If I were the Liberals I would put out ads comparing and constrasting Iggy's academic performance with Harper (ie I maybe foreign but the other guy is a dullard) and Harper's equally deplorable French accent and all his lovely views of la belle province before he became PM.

The problem there is that Ignatieff isn't exactly baggage-free when it comes to the French language and Quebecois nationalism. Look to Harper to exploit that, though probably doing more to help the BQ than his own cause. But, like with many of Ignatieff's writings in the past, Harper will have a hard time using those against him because he believed the same things (i.e. pro-war in Iraq, pro-torture, etc.). Hence the substanceless attack ads we're seeing now.

Attack ads worked with Dion because there was already a very anti-Dion sentiment in the country that was built upon. People weren't comfortable with his English language skills, his environmental policy, and his involvement in past Liberal governments (and their various scandals). That same hestiation people felt towards Dion does not exist to the same degree with Ignatieff, and these attack ads do nothing except for the core who would vote Conservative anyways.

Also, the economic situation has changed dramatically since the last election and any frivilous spending (attack ads when there is no campaign, no election) will not play well. The Conservatives' apparent financial elitism will probably become more of a concern to voters than Ignatieff's supposed intellectual elitism.
 
^ There will always be differences between the provincial and federal arms of any political party. At the end of the day the provincial opposition will have to do what it takes to get elected, including slagging a policy of their federal cousins.

Well technically I don't think there is a formal link between the federal Conservatives and the provincial PCs as there is between the NDP and its various provincial branches. Of course there are links, but they are not the same party and they will not always work together (or, as in the case of Danny Williams' PCs, might actually work against one another).
 
I vote that they should respond. If they don't then like Dion, Iggy will get defined on Conservative terms.

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PUBLICATION: GLOBE AND MAIL
DATE: 2009.05.21
PAGE: A15
BYLINE: LAWRENCE MARTIN
SECTION: Comment Column
EDITION: Metro
DATELINE:
WORDS: 721
WORD COUNT: 685

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Do nice guys finish last? The Liberals hope not

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LAWRENCE MARTIN lmartin@globeandmail.com There's an old rule in politics. Don't bet on the nice guys. Robert Stanfield was the princely example. Lost three in a row. Lester Pearson was too soft to ever win big. Joe Clark was characterized as wimpish, Stephane Dion the same. The American Democrats had nice-guy Michael Dukakis, nice-guy Walter Mondale, nice-guy George McGovern and another skirt-wearer, nice-guy Al Gore. They all went down.

The toughs do better, no matter how ugly their politics. The Liberals of today are wrestling with this question as Stephen Harper's attack ads come right at their leader, Michael Ignatieff, in prime time.

The carpet-bombing of the so-called carpetbagger has begun.

What to do? To retaliate or not to retaliate is the question.

It's a critical one because the public image of Mr. Ignatieff is now being shaped.

There are some in the party who want to hit back hard. There are more, it seems, who feel they can rely on the sense of fair play of the Canadian people. As in, don't worry, they will realize the Prime Minister is a thug and vote our guy in.

Ujall Dosanjh, the British Columbia MP, is one who is sounding tough. "With these ads, the Conservatives are showing a streak of anti-intellectualism and xenophobia that goes back to their Reform roots. It needs to be confronted." The implicit suggestion, says Mr. Dosanjh, a Punjabi, is that if you've spent a lot of time outside the country - like he and Mr. Ignatieff have - you're less of a Canadian.

Justin Trudeau is putting out a similar message on his website.

It's titled "Small Politics of Stephen Harper." The commercials, adds party stalwart Ralph Goodale, are "offensive and juvenile.

These are the games Harper plays when 350,000 Canadians are out of work." These Liberals are of the optimistic view that Canadians won't be hornswoggled. None of them want to respond in kind to the Tories.

To do that, they say, would be to join them in the gutter. They sense the media and public reaction to the negative campaigning is hostile. Indeed, on the media front, they are getting considerable help. The attack ads are being panned by commentators on the left, the centre and even the right.

But the short-lived media reaction might not hold up against an onslaught of TV spots in the Stanley Cup playoffs that garner huge audiences. For the large swath of Canadians who pay little attention to politics, the message of the commercials could well carry greater weight.

How to respond, says Ian Davey, Mr. Ignatieff's top strategist, is a tough call. "Attack ads are generally effective if they are calibrated right," he said. "I think there is some issue here on the 'carpetbagger case,' which may not hold water as it might have in 2006." That was when Mr. Ignatieff, a new entrant to politics, made his first run at the leadership. With the global recession, with the arrival of Barack Obama, Mr. Davey feels that cheap political partisanship may have less of a place. "The big question is how much of a political paradigm shift are we in?" Good question. In the meantime, Mr. Davey said his party is doing what he called the "sensible thing" and using the threat that the attack ads pose as a vehicle to raise money.

Pollster Bruce Anderson says that with his strategy, the Prime Minister is taking a bigger risk of alienating voters than he took when he successfully used negative ads against Stephane Dion. "The public tolerated excesses of partisanship as long as the economy was healthy. But the stakes are far different now." The Liberals, he says, should contrast Mr. Harper's hyper-partisanship with their own leader, who is preoccupied with higher motives.

It may work. But a high-road strategy - the Grits have little money to run retaliatory ads anyway - is a gamble. Mr. Harper has been painted as a bully almost since Day 1 - and he has won two elections. He is well aware of the old adage about what happens to nice guys. There's another adage, more appealing to the Grits.

It's from Heraclitus. A man's character is his fate.
 
I vote that they should respond. If they don't then like Dion, Iggy will get defined on Conservative terms.

They should respond, and they could do so without sinking to Harper's level. If they attacked Harper's record instead of his personal history, I think they'd come off as taking the high road. Let's not see the petiness of the Bush/Harper '08 campaign the Liberals ran last year.

Of course, this pre-campaign campaigning increases the risk of an election sooner rather than later and all parties should be a bit hesitant about that at least for the near future.
 

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