[WislaHD]

However, looking at that green grass boulevard between the traffic lanes, the bicycle lanes, and the sidewalk, they could convert some of that grass for the bicycle lane. Still have space for snow windrows, but get wider bicycle lanes.

From link.

What would have been better was to shift the curb closer to the traffic lanes, in exchange put the bicycle lanes (using different material) next to the pedestrian sidewalk.

From link.

I don't understand why we have an inability to do this simple road adjustment in Canada. It is widespread in Europe.

 

[Northern Light]

However, looking at that green grass boulevard between the traffic lanes, the bicycle lanes, and the sidewalk, they could convert some of that grass for the bicycle lane. Still have space for snow windrows, but get wider bicycle lanes.

From link.

What would have been better was to shift the curb closer to the traffic lanes, in exchange put the bicycle lanes (using different material) next to the pedestrian sidewalk.

From link.

I don't understand why we have an inability to do this simple road adjustment in Canada. It is widespread in Europe.

To be fair, the lower example presents a conflict.

To implement that design (or the same one varied by moving the cycling facility next to the curb) means removing a row of trees.

It would make a the area a good deal less attractive for adjacent owners/renters as well as commuters.

The alternative is narrowing the road to find the room, but if you don't shift the green boulevard (which still means removing the existing trees), the Road narrowing is 2.0M for a one-way bike path/lane on one-side of the street or 4.0M for two-way or two-side.

There is no question that Toronto is ages behind in cycling infrastructure; that it does not follow world-leading practices when it does deliver it, and that road design could and should be better.

However, I think it would be wrong to suggest that most roads lend themselves to an easy design change (where easy means, uncomplicated, low-cost and non-controversial)

There are some roads where i think that would be the case, or mostly so (ie Donlands, or a better Lakeshore Blvd W/Waterfront trail).

After that you tend to get into choices that more pricey or the subject of greater controversy.

We should be willing to take on that challenge.

But so far, not so much.

I will review Transportation's cycling plans and budgets when they come out in the next week or so.

I will also have a chat w/some folks at the City in the next while, and will see if I can gain any insight or info to share.

 

[innsertnamehere]

if you want to see how bike lanes can and should be done in an Ontario context, go to Ottawa. Lots of very safe, high quality lanes there.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.4395...4!1sRMOu1O6Ehh6wxTtbvyb6Lw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.2684...=203&h=100&yaw=23.444605&pitch=0&thumbfov=100

 

[Northern Light]

if you want to see how bike lanes can and should be done in an Ontario context, go to Ottawa. Lots of very safe, high quality lanes there.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.4395...4!1sRMOu1O6Ehh6wxTtbvyb6Lw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.2684727,-75.7346167,3a,69.8y,55.96h,84.1t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1s311BAcVs0XR7fi_Oqsp_kw!2e0!6s//geo0.ggpht.com/cbk?panoid=311BAcVs0XR7fi_Oqsp_kw&output=thumbnail&cb_client=maps_sv.tactile.gps&thumb=2&w=203&h=100&yaw=23.444605&pitch=0&thumbfov=100

I can't say I care for that design for the top link.

At least visually, it appears to be quite narrow, and the pedestrians easily encroach into the space (and arguably have no alternative).

Its pretty low capacity from a cycling pov while also cutting into needed pedestrian space.

The second link also shows a fairly narrow black top area which I don't think would allow any passing or 2-way bike traffic.

Also it features no street trees between the sidewalk/bike path and the road. Rather unattractive.

 

[steveintoronto]

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.2684...=203&h=100&yaw=23.444605&pitch=0&thumbfov=100

I can't say I care for that design for the top link.

Agreed on the top link. It immediately reminded me of the Bloor lanes, which contrary to many cyclists' views, are very dangerous. That lane looks even more dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists alike. I'd avoid it if at all possible as a cyclist, probably use the road instead. It would be safer.

I reposted the lower link, even though agreeing with it being a spartan concrete vista (Brussels this ain't) but it embodies the "Dutch solution" to repositioning of vehicles and bikes at intersections such that visibility is much more 'head-on', and the turning radius for vehicles much tighter, forcing them to slow down.

It also delineates 'islands;' for pedestrians to intuitively understand what's a bike lane, and what's a pedestrian lane. I find this vista welcoming and able to be used to full advantage, not having to crawl along due to unexpected surprises stepping into my path.

 

[Neutrino]

The first one is not safe at all because the curb extends a very short length. Same thing for the second one. What's the point of a few metres of protected bike lane only to have it end shortly?

 

[innsertnamehere]

That's ottawa's version of a bus stop - much like Toronto has on Sherbourne.

Ottawa's is more in line with those of Europe in terms of design than Toronto's, from my understanding.

Yes, they are rather narrow. In the second link though, those will always be very low volume lanes given that they are in suburban Barrhaven.

The first set is likely narrow due to Right of Way constraints.

Other than the narrowness, they are pretty high quality.

Those are also just the two new examples I though of in Ottawa. There are lots more of even better infrastructure.

The examples I gave are small because they are either right at the end of the main road with the lanes, or were reconstructed recently as a part of nearby development prior to the entire street getting rebuilt.

Ottawa, unlike Toronto, has several protected intersections as well.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.4047481,-75.6801225,3a,75y,245.57h,65.43t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sY8vErhmh15jLQwJLmOXalA!2e0!6s//geo0.ggpht.com/cbk?panoid=Y8vErhmh15jLQwJLmOXalA&output=thumbnail&cb_client=maps_sv.tactile.gps&thumb=2&w=203&h=100&yaw=260.06717&pitch=0&thumbfov=100

 

[Neutrino]

That being said, I checked the Streetview from a few years ago for the first link, and the turn was much higher speed. They built a semi-decent curb extension, although I would have made it more aggressive - it's still quite high speed and I never feel safe when I see curvy curbs.

 

[steveintoronto]

it's still quite high speed and I never feel safe when I see curvy curbs.

There's that *incredibly necessary* 'sixth sense' talking. Sometimes it's difficult to describe why you sense a situation isn't safe. 'Curvy curbs' is a cause for doubt, and the only safe reaction is to slow down. Shit happens in a fraction of a second. The bottom line for me as a distance cyclist (I haven't owned a vehicle in this nation for decades, it's bike or bus/train for me) is that sometimes it's better to cycle on a road with reasonable grasp of risks than it is to cycle on a 'dedicated strip' for which the claim of 'dedicated' is tenuous at best. That's exactly one of the many problems on the Bloor Lanes. Everyone thinks they're for them, which may or may not include cyclists.

And then there's really fugged up sightlines and intruding intersections, non HTA compliant markings, etc, etc. Not to mention idiot cyclists themselves who have little to no awareness of the danger they put themselves and other cyclists in.

Thank God for rail trails and open back country roads! lol...

I do give Ottawa credit for trying, but like Toronto, you really have to wonder who exactly they've consulted before doing it. Sometimes the best answer is "There isn't the space to do it, and to try will only make a bad situation worse. We need a major redesign to do this safely". And therein also lies the excuse in this nation to not do it.

 

[Neutrino]

I'm glad you mentioned the sight lines. I cringe as both a driver and pedestrian at the sight lines I regularly see at intersections and turns.

 

[steveintoronto]

I'm glad you mentioned the sight lines. I cringe as both a driver and pedestrian at the sight lines I regularly see at intersections and turns.

It's a wish for suicide to not acknowledge them. Beyond cyclists, pedestrians and drivers and sightlines, I'm absolutely boggled by seeing parents/caregivers push kids in strollers out into traffic without being able to see what's coming. Best I stop there...I'm shaking with the thought of it. And so many cyclists have no idea what's coming up behind them, let alone in front.

 

[Leo_Chan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1090720564950384641

 

[Towered]

Bootlicker Gord and the useless dummy Holyday voted in favour??

 

[steveintoronto]

Bootlicker Gord and the useless dummy Holyday voted in favour??

Well it seems Droog's shrinking of Council backfired...lol.

 

[steveintoronto]

Well it seems Droog's shrinking of Council backfired...lol.

Confirmation!

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/levy-fewer-councillors-but-same-grandstanding

It's not unlike The Sun: Staff have been slashed a number of times, and yet the 'Little Paper that grew' is as welcome as Athlete's Foot at a nudist colony dance competition. Maybe slash the Sun some more? It's the Conservative way ya know!