[evandyk]

The thing with Bloor St is that there literally isn't another street between Queen and St. Clair to go east west in a straight line across most of the west side of the city. Dundas W would actually be a great street for a bike lane because of the way it cuts the corner, but you can achieve the same with the Railpath if that ever happens. Everything else you have to zig and zag.

 

[bearcat]

Thanks a lot for looking into this.

I got this e-mail this morning:

"Senior Transportation Services staff reached out to our office to share the following update with you:

“Blue Jays Way from Front St to Richmond St is tentatively planned for Critical Interim Repairs in 2025 subject to coordination with other construction activities, available funding and competing priorities. The scope of work for Critical Interim Repairs typically includes the milling and paving of the worst sections of asphalt to provide an improved surface condition until the road can be included within the capital works program for more extensive repairs.

We would like to thank you for raising these concerns to our attention. If you do become aware of specific areas of concern, we also recommend that these are submitted through 311 so that staff can investigate and address the issues at the respective locations. This is important for us to ensure we have records pertaining to the issues and actions taken in response.""

So from this the e-mail what it sounds like to me is that next year the plan is to just repair areas of poor pavement, but not really change anything with regards to the bike lane setup or markings, other than presumably putting fresh paint where the asphalt is replaced.

I think I will reply to this e-mail asking specifically regarding the bike lanes (including the plan regarding adding them between Wellington and King) and if there is any plans for improving the bike lane protection.

I have updates regarding this:

Hi bearcat,

Thank you for reaching out. As Councillor Malik Office has advised below, Peters Street/ Blue Jays Way between Richmond St and Front St is tentatively planned for Critical Interim Repairs in 2025 but is still subject to coordination with other construction activities, available funding and competing priorities. There are a few conflicts on the corridor including Toronto Water work, but we are hoping the conflicts can be resolved.

Critical Interim Repairs are intended to provide immediate improvements to the road surface condition and maintain the road until more extensive rehabilitation efforts can be included within the Transportation Services Capital Works Program.

As part of Critical Interim Repairs, installation of existing pavement markings and bikeway barriers to current standards is included as part of the work. This includes repainting of the bikeways within the entire project.

In January 2019, City Council authorized maintaining Peter Street cycle tracks between King Street and Queen Street as a permanent installation: https://secure.toronto.ca/council/agenda-item.do?item=2019.IE1.5. In June2019, City Council authorized bicycle lanes between King Street and Navy’s Wharf : https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2019/ie/bgrd/backgroundfile-134711.pdf. The block between King Street and Wellington Street bike lanes were not installed due to development hoardings, which have only been removed earlier this year.

At the time of the Critical Interim Repair, the Peter Street’s cycle track markings and barriers will be upgraded to today’s standard, but Blue Jays Way will remain as painted bike lanes. The missing block of bike lanes will also be installed. After installation, staff can monitor the new bike lanes and if desired, can bring forward recommendations to upgrade the bike lanes to cycle tracks to City Council.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions.

Best,
Becky

Becky Katz (she/her)
Manager, Operations and Maintenance
Transportation Services
City of Toronto

 

[TheGrimSweeper]

Outside of her pre-written statement im really curious what Chow is doing behind the scenes.
Fighting the province on this could define her as a mayor. Or will she roll over and accept it?

I suspect she will need to handle this kind of like the Therma Spa / Ontario Place. A give and take type thing. Give Ontario place, get DVP/Gardiner off Toronto's books.

She likely knows she needs to give Doug some sort of "win". Personally I would be most willing to give up the Bloor W bike lanes. As much as losing bike lanes sucks, when they are just painted lines in the road its different. In return, she could bargain for keeping University but removing on street parking or something to appease. Out of all the ones mentioned, ripping up University would be the most insane since they actually redesigned the whole streetscape.

I agree though, she needs to put a very strong foot forward.

 

[evandyk]

On University, they could delete the useless median "park" and put either bike lanes or car lanes there. It would be stupid, but if we're forced to rededicate space to cars, it should come from the part that nobody ever uses right now. Hopefully it will all be changed in the future to accommodate the real University Park anyways.

 

[robmausser]

On University, they could delete the useless median "park" and put either bike lanes or car lanes there. It would be stupid, but if we're forced to rededicate space to cars, it should come from the part that nobody ever uses right now. Hopefully it will all be changed in the future to accommodate the real University Park anyways.

I also find the separated bike lanes at various points to be quite unnecessarily wide. There are places where I feel even as a biker, cycletracks for both directions would have easily fit in even one of the single direction lanes.
Then the other side could be given back as street parking, lane etc.

There are areas where I think the bike lanes could be narrowed a bit and still be safe, rather than losing them altogether.

There are other places too where a more elegant solution could have allowed for less removal of car lanes, but it was deemed too expensive. A good example is here on Yonge:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

There is absolutely space in the boulevard for bike lanes, but it would cost a lot to recut curbs, move light/hydro poles and replant trees, etc.

Chow should negotiate with Ford that the city is willing to do things like this, if the province pays for it.

 

[TheGrimSweeper]

I also find the separated bike lanes at various points to be quite unnecessarily wide. There are places where I feel even as a biker, cycletracks for both directions would have easily fit in even one of the single direction lanes.
Then the other side could be given back as street parking, lane etc.

There are areas where I think the bike lanes could be narrowed a bit and still be safe, rather than losing them altogether.

There are other places too where a more elegant solution could have allowed for less removal of car lanes, but it was deemed too expensive. A good example is here on Yonge:
View attachment 606777

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

There is absolutely space in the boulevard for bike lanes, but it would cost a lot to recut curbs, move light/hydro poles and replant trees, etc.

Chow should negotiate with Ford that the city is willing to do things like this, if the province pays for it.

Why the hell do you even need On-street parking in that section? There is nothing there.

 

[evandyk]

I also find the separated bike lanes at various points to be quite unnecessarily wide. There are places where I feel even as a biker, cycletracks for both directions would have easily fit in even one of the single direction lanes.
Then the other side could be given back as street parking, lane etc.

There are areas where I think the bike lanes could be narrowed a bit and still be safe, rather than losing them altogether.

There are other places too where a more elegant solution could have allowed for less removal of car lanes, but it was deemed too expensive. A good example is here on Yonge:
View attachment 606777

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

Absolutely mind-numbingly stupid that there is parking on Yonge St there.

Some of the unidirectional ones are wider than they need to be because they were just painted there and occupy what was a car lane. I don't think any of those are wide enough for bi-directional lanes, though.

 

[Northern Light]

On University, they could delete the useless median "park" and put either bike lanes or car lanes there. It would be stupid, but if we're forced to rededicate space to cars, it should come from the part that nobody ever uses right now. Hopefully it will all be changed in the future to accommodate the real University Park anyways.

Disagree.

1) Removing the median but replacing it with car lanes is a clear step backwards. It would also cost us some nice fountains and other add aesthetic add-ons for which there is no alternative location.

2) University Park is NOT moving forward at this time. I can assure that baring an unforeseen windfall of billions of dollars it will not be. That's not to say it will never happen, merely that is not in the near or medium term horizon.

 

[evandyk]

Why the hell do you even need On-street parking in that section? There is nothing there.

No kidding! The google streets photo looking the other way from the same spot is hilarious:

 

[hawc]

Which bike lanes is Ford specifically proposing get removed? I can't find it anywhere.

 

[evandyk]

1) Removing the median but replacing it with car lanes is a clear step backwards. It would also cost us some nice fountains and other add aesthetic add-ons for which there is no alternative location.

It is a clear step backwards, no question about that! But I think if we're forced to remove the current improvements so that we can open up more car lanes, the bike lanes we have now are a better use of space than the fountains and aesthetic add-ons that nobody walks through. We're being forced to take a step backwards no matter what.

Most green space I would not be in favour of replacing with bike lanes. This particular green space is really poorly laid out and used.

Sadly, I agree with you that there is no prospect on the horizon of University Park being moved forward.

 

[Northern Light]

I also find the separated bike lanes at various points to be quite unnecessarily wide. There are places where I feel even as a biker, cycletracks for both directions would have easily fit in even one of the single direction lanes.
Then the other side could be given back as street parking, lane etc.

There are areas where I think the bike lanes could be narrowed a bit and still be safe, rather than losing them altogether.

There are other places too where a more elegant solution could have allowed for less removal of car lanes, but it was deemed too expensive. A good example is here on Yonge:
View attachment 606777

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

There is absolutely space in the boulevard for bike lanes, but it would cost a lot to recut curbs, move light/hydro poles and replant trees, etc.

Chow should negotiate with Ford that the city is willing to do things like this, if the province pays for it.

Sorry, shifting the cycle tracks to the boulevards here is a terrible idea, not just a costly one.

There are no boulevards just a few blocks to the north and to the south.

So you would reinstate 4 lanes of traffic feeding into two (existing to the south); and planned to the north.

Not only would that have next to no utility, it would actually slow traffic by creating merges at both ends.

All while chopping down perfectly good trees and making the area more hostile to walk or bike, Hard No.

Why the hell do you even need On-street parking in that section?

At first blush, you don't.

I reviewed the Streetview images from 3 years (all that's available) post implementation of the current layout. (2021, 2023 and 2024).

In the image with the most parked cars there does not appear to be total occupancy greater than 15% of spaces available.

There is nothing there.

I wouldn't go quite that far. I imagine there may be some parking demand by visitors to or employees of Mt. Pleasant Cemetery or possibly some folks using the Beltline from out of neighbourhood.

That said, the actual demand is clearly quite low, assuming the street view images are representative and the demand does not justify the space currently occupied by parking.

***

Worth saying here, these were 'quick-build' lanes during Active TO with no money to do road reconstruction. Other than giving over the entire curb lane to cycling, there really wasn't any better use of the space than permitting parking.

I think we can reasonably assume, absent provincial intervention that when Yonge here comes up for reconstruction that parking would either be curtailed by 75% or eliminated entirely. In that case I would expect a design very similar to University Avenue with very wide cycle tracks and new landscaped boulevards separating them from traffic.

 

[bearcat]

I also find the separated bike lanes at various points to be quite unnecessarily wide. There are places where I feel even as a biker, cycletracks for both directions would have easily fit in even one of the single direction lanes.
Then the other side could be given back as street parking, lane etc.

There are areas where I think the bike lanes could be narrowed a bit and still be safe, rather than losing them altogether.

There are other places too where a more elegant solution could have allowed for less removal of car lanes, but it was deemed too expensive. A good example is here on Yonge:
View attachment 606777

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

There is absolutely space in the boulevard for bike lanes, but it would cost a lot to recut curbs, move light/hydro poles and replant trees, etc.

Chow should negotiate with Ford that the city is willing to do things like this, if the province pays for it.

100% agree, many bike lanes in the city could have been installed without car lane removal if street parking was not preserved and the city had the money for a complete street reconstruction to move the curbs and light/hydro poles. If Douggie Ford really cared about improving traffic flow he would fund such project that's would benefit both drivers and cyclists, instead of just planning to rip out bike lanes.

 

[DSC]

Which bike lanes is Ford specifically proposing get removed? I can't find it anywhere.

That is because Ford just says whatever comes into his mind. We should stop trying to argue with him as if he were a reasonable person with well-thought-out proposals. I bet that if his next weekend drive takes him to some new area of the City that has a bike lane and if his car is delayed that one will be 'on his list' next.

Here is another example of him saying whatever comes into his mind: https://www.thestar.com/politics/pr...cle_9af14972-9162-11ef-8550-e33d68945444.html

 

[FC_]

It would be interesting to see if there's an opportunity to give both sides what they want. If the city can provide plans that maintains both the protected bike lanes, and restores the traffic lanes, would the province pay for it? For example, removing the parking lane on University would add a traffic lane back. On Bloor, could both the lane widths of cars and bikes be reduced to restore the 4 traffic lanes and keep the bike lanes?