robmausser
Senior Member
That was almost put there because of this bike lane setup. Prior it was a 4 lane road with no parking.
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- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
chrisw
Active Member
Finding a compromise can be a decent strategy. But giving up Bloor Street W for University is stupid. Everyone already knows that ripping up University is stupid, it's hardly a concession for Doug Ford.
She can also fight fire with fire and there's lots of different ways to annoy, obstruct Doug Ford on this issue.
bearcat
Active Member
From a layperson perspective that would make sense. I do get the feeling that for a lot of quick build bike lane implementations preserving car lanes was not really a consideration, the main considerations being the cost and how quickly they can be implemented. However, as @Northern Light discussed just above there are nuances to this.
Northern Light
Superstar
This is generally not true. I know its intuitive..........
But the parking lane is generally ~2.5M and would not be approved as a through lane without poaching from the Cycle Track.
In most parts of the City (not all), the sidewalks/boulevards are actually considered sub-standard in width and eating into them is not an option.
ie. The Danforth/Coxwell intersection:
Note the absence of parking right at the intersection, with a left hand turn lane and a right hand turn lane absorbing most of that space.
But there is no scenario where the left turn lane is removed. The space in the ROW btw the two Cycle Tracks is only 10.0M - 2.5M for the left turn lane and you have only 7.5M You're not getting 4 vehicle lanes squeeze in there.
There is no room here to add one vehicle lane per direction without removing the cycle tracks entirely.
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Where it may be an option is on select roads where boulevards were laid out to support a six or seven lane road configuration at build out, but currently only 4 or 5 lanes have been built., so there is surplus boulevard.
However, in most of those cases, parking is currently illegal in those road segments.
Example: (Victoria Park just south of Steeles); here there is sufficient space available between the surplus boulevard and existing vehicle lane widths to allow for cycle tracks and retaining current vehicle lanes.
Above there is roughly 1M per direction available by lane narrowing and a further 2M in each boulevard without causing undue harm to existing trees.
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generalcanada
Senior Member
So to be clear, when fords talking about "Bloor university and avenue bike lanes"
Is he talking the entire segment from Scarborough to High Park on Bloor?
Is he talking the entire segment from Scarborough to High Park on Bloor?
bearcat
Active Member
Thanks for the thorough reply, I guess in my head I just imagine 2.5 meter wide car lanes working, but I guess that's too narrow. Or maybe the cars are too wide nowadays. Though obviously narrow lanes won't fly on any street that has buses or the potential for buses to run on.
bearcat
Active Member
He probably doesn't know exactly where any of the bike lanes are. Just what street names to say to appease the anti-bike supporters.
Northern Light
Superstar
You're welcome.
It really is, for the most part. It could work on a side street, with no parking, particularly if one-way, but maybe even bidirectional with a 30km/ph speed limit or less.
But on major roads with buses and trucks and birectional traffic...........not happening.
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Remember in the example I afforded above, at Danforth/Coxwell, if you keep the left-turn lane, you'd have only 7.5M available across 4 vehicle lanes, that's 1.87M per lane.
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Edit to add, important to remember that intersection capacity is key to any analysis.
Those are almost always the most constrained parts of the ROW w/the most demand.
bearcat
Active Member
Yeah, I guess it makes sense that intersections are the biggest issues in terms of constraints of the width of road, since you have to fit in turning lanes as well. But also one of the most important things to get right in order to make sure that traffic moves smoothly. I myself was complaining about the city narrowing the bicycle lane at the Main and Danforth intersection to squeeze in a right turn lane.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Toronto could just lower speed limits to 20 km/hr where the bikelnes currently exist. There will be no need for the bike routes & would be good for pedestriens too. Drivers would be so pissed & Ford would quickly reverse course.
Northern Light
Superstar
I'm all for playing hardball............but one needs to do so with a sense of reality.
1) You're asking all those City Councillors up for re-election in 2 years (2026) to tick off a large number of their constituents.
2) That speed limit would apply to TTC buses and streetcars and dramatically reduce the carrying capacity of transit.
3) The province can pass legislation over-riding the City's choices.
I don't see that as the viable strategy here. The Premier has pressure points..........but those aren't the ones I would target.
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goodcitywhenfinished
Active Member
The city could just go crazy on signing construction services contracts for all lanes that are at 100% design right now.
If the province wants to cancel the city can just go on a PR frenzy highlighting how many millions are going to go down the drain.
If the province wants to cancel the city can just go on a PR frenzy highlighting how many millions are going to go down the drain.
bearcat
Active Member
Well I was pleasantly surprised today, the asphalt patch job was replaced with nicely poured brand new asphalt
.facepalming_brooklynite
Active Member
The public outcry will happen with or without Chow. This is putting people's lives in real danger, for nothing but silly culture-war antics.
txlseries4
Active Member
Notable that no councillors or the Mayor were at the ride & rally, I wonder if that was coincidental or deliberate... I'd like to think behind the scenes the Mayor's staff are working on a strategy.
About an hour ago Mayor Chow posted this to social media:
"Ripping up our roads will make people less safe, make traffic worse, and put lives at risk. Full stop. I challenge the Premier to talk to people who have lost loved ones on our roads and hear their stories.
It might be hard for the province to do two things at once but, as leaders we have to —tackle congestion AND keep people safe at the same time!
As I’ve said before – the congestion in this city is partially the result of the province’s failure to deliver transit projects on time and has led to long construction delays and years of road closures. Stay in your lane, open the Eglinton Crosstown and Finch West LRTs and fix the chaos at Metrolinx."
About an hour ago Mayor Chow posted this to social media:
"Ripping up our roads will make people less safe, make traffic worse, and put lives at risk. Full stop. I challenge the Premier to talk to people who have lost loved ones on our roads and hear their stories.
It might be hard for the province to do two things at once but, as leaders we have to —tackle congestion AND keep people safe at the same time!
As I’ve said before – the congestion in this city is partially the result of the province’s failure to deliver transit projects on time and has led to long construction delays and years of road closures. Stay in your lane, open the Eglinton Crosstown and Finch West LRTs and fix the chaos at Metrolinx."