[denfromoakvillemilton]

I'm all for Weston Road. That's an efficient way of bypassing the 401 traffic from hell by having a train all the way to McCowan from there with a big parking lot at Weston Road. Weston and Sheppard are not far from the 400 Highway. With a Parking lot for the stations and access ramp to Sheppard Avenue West, I have no doubt that thousands of drivers would exit there to have access to the subway and the Spadina Line or elsewhere in the city instead of being trap on the 400/401/427/DVP.

View attachment 20345

That's exactly what I was thinking. At least that would bring more ridership during rush hour. Maybe to the Albion center as well. And in the east. To Markham Rd. That looks way bett then sheppard west-mccowan.

 

[innsertnamehere]

considering the portion west of downsview would be longer than the portion east of yonge that currently exists, and would likely cost upwards of $2 billion, I would rank its cost-benefit to be extremely, extremely low.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

considering the portion west of downsview would be longer than the portion east of yonge that currently exists, and would likely cost upwards of $2 billion, I would rank its cost-benefit to be extremely, extremely low.

I'm not sure. If we can attract riders from the highway, then it could be justified. Question is, will the people come?

 

[innsertnamehere]

you would have to attract essentially every single person from the highway for it to work. it won't. there isn't enough space for 50,000 parking spots, nor the demand.

 

[Solid Snake]

I'm not sure. If we can attract riders from the highway, then it could be justified. Question is, will the people come?

If the travel time from from Sheppard & 400 : Transit << Driving, then yes. Time is valuable and nobody enjoys wasting hours in gridlock. That's why people in London, Paris and NYC use transit to go to work. Because it's much faster than driving.

Time is only one factor of the equation. The other one is accessibility. Is there a station at my destination? If a rider's workplace is far from the closest subway or GO Station, they will still drive. If that's station is close to their workplace but the trains are not frequent, they'll drive.

The best way to reduce gridlock is to build more stations next to major destinations and working areas in the city. Someone working at Sheppard-Yonge from Barrie will drive but build the Sheppard line and they'll gladly use it instead of going on the 401.

 

[salsa]

I'm not sure. If we can attract riders from the highway, then it could be justified. Question is, will the people come?

Seriously, enough with the pipe dreams. If the existing sheppard stubway running through the middle of North York can't attract many riders, then there's no way that this one will be any different, especially with the much low density. Hwy 400 doesn't even have an interchange at sheppard ave to begin with. Drivers should be using the spadina extension or the GO train if they wan't to avoid the 401. Transit users will have the Finch West LRT that serves a higher density corridor, has more stations, and goes beyond Weston road.

 

[Solid Snake]

you would have to attract essentially every single person from the highway for it to work. it won't. there isn't enough space for 50,000 parking spots, nor the demand.

Sheppard Avenue West is a very busy transit corridor. People from that area are cut off from subways and they either take the bus to Downsview with the overcrowded 84 bus or they stay on the Weston and Jane buses all the way to the Bloor Line. How is that any better???

A Sheppard line would intercept all those riders from Weston road, Jane st and Keele St. Add the potential riders from the 400 and the redevelopment of the Downsview Park area that will increase the density on Keele Street. The line would stimulate growth and redevelopment along Weston rd, Jane and Sheppard. I'm only speculating that it's worth being study. If we could get a lot of those cars off our streets than it's worth finding a solution. Just expropriate that church (industrial building) on Sheppard West and build a multi level parking lot You can't say that the demand isn't there because no study has ever been done there.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Funny that LRT people will complain about sunk costs of cancelled LRTs, but then they demand cancelling yet another plan, wasting even more money, and even more time. OK.

We made an LRT-human hybrid? Damn.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Fair enough insert. I hope the ridership is good enough. I am just worried about eastern Scarborough really

I'm worried about that area too. They'd be served well by the Scabrough-Malvern LRT, if we ever get around to building it.

My understanding is that the biggest problem with the Malvern LRT was that there would be so many riders on the LRVs that they'd be full by time they reached Kennedy Station. There just isn't enough capacity. This is why the Malvern LRT was never joined with the Eglinton LRT. A forced transfer was needed to encourage people to transfer to Bloor-Danforth. Elevating Eglinton East would have been a cheap way to eliminate this problem, but Council refused to consider it.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I'm worried about that area too. They'd be served well by the Scabrough-Malvern LRT, if we ever get around to building it.

My understanding is that the biggest problem with the Malvern LRT was that there would be so many riders on the LRVs that they'd be full by time they reached Kennedy Station. There just isn't enough capacity. This is why the Malvern LRT was never joined with the Eglinton LRT. A forced transfer was needed to encourage people to transfer to Bloor-Danforth. Elevating Eglinton East would have been a cheap way to eliminate this problem, but Council refused to consider it.

Just another reason why Toronto city council should be out of transit. Eglinton should be elevated to morningside.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If the travel time from from Sheppard & 400 : Transit << Driving, then yes. Time is valuable and nobody enjoys wasting hours in gridlock. That's why people in London, Paris and NYC use transit to go to work. Because it's much faster than driving.

Time is only one factor of the equation. The other one is accessibility. Is there a station at my destination? If a rider's workplace is far from the closest subway or GO Station, they will still drive. If that's station is close to their workplace but the trains are not frequent, they'll drive.

The best way to reduce gridlock is to build more stations next to major destinations and working areas in the city. Someone working at Sheppard-Yonge from Barrie will drive but build the Sheppard line and they'll gladly use it instead of going on the 401.

Seriously, enough with the pipe dreams. If the existing sheppard stubway running through the middle of North York can't attract many riders, then there's no way that this one will be any different, especially with the much low density. Hwy 400 doesn't even have an interchange at sheppard ave to begin with. Drivers should be using the spadina extension or the GO train if they wan't to avoid the 401. Transit users will have the Finch West LRT that serves a higher density corridor, has more stations, and goes beyond Weston road.

Sheppard Avenue West is a very busy transit corridor. People from that area are cut off from subways and they either take the bus to Downsview with the overcrowded 84 bus or they stay on the Weston and Jane buses all the way to the Bloor Line. How is that any better???

A Sheppard line would intercept all those riders from Weston road, Jane st and Keele St. Add the potential riders from the 400 and the redevelopment of the Downsview Park area that will increase the density on Keele Street. The line would stimulate growth and redevelopment along Weston rd, Jane and Sheppard. I'm only speculating that it's worth being study. If we could get a lot of those cars off our streets than it's worth finding a solution. Just expropriate that church (industrial building) on Sheppard West and build a multi level parking lot You can't say that the demand isn't there because no study has ever been done there.

Ok, I think the issue, at least with me is that Sheppard is a stubway. I am just looking for ways to improve the current situation. Although there is no guarantee highway users will switch to finch.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Just another reason why Toronto city council should be out of transit. Eglinton should be elevated to morningside.

I'm not sure about all the way to Morningside, but definitely to Kennedy. The lack of grade separation east of Don Mills definitely has the potential to limit any eastern extensions of this line. In it's current state (Kennedy terminus) there will be more than enough rider capacity, but any extensions east may necessitate getting rid of the ROW.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If the travel time from from Sheppard & 400 : Transit << Driving, then yes. Time is valuable and nobody enjoys wasting hours in gridlock. That's why people in London, Paris and NYC use transit to go to work. Because it's much faster than driving.

Time is only one factor of the equation. The other one is accessibility. Is there a station at my destination? If a rider's workplace is far from the closest subway or GO Station, they will still drive. If that's station is close to their workplace but the trains are not frequent, they'll drive.

The best way to reduce gridlock is to build more stations next to major destinations and working areas in the city. Someone working at Sheppard-Yonge from Barrie will drive but build the Sheppard line and they'll gladly use it instead of going on the 401.

Seriously, enough with the pipe dreams. If the existing sheppard stubway running through the middle of North York can't attract many riders, then there's no way that this one will be any different, especially with the much low density. Hwy 400 doesn't even have an interchange at sheppard ave to begin with. Drivers should be using the spadina extension or the GO train if they wan't to avoid the 401. Transit users will have the Finch West LRT that serves a higher density corridor, has more stations, and goes beyond Weston road.

I'm not sure about all the way to Morningside, but definitely to Kennedy. The lack of grade separation east of Don Mills definitely has the potential to limit any eastern extensions of this line. In it's current state (Kennedy terminus) there will be more than enough rider capacity, but any extensions east may necessitate getting rid of the ROW.

There is still time to change it. That have not started the eastern portion. Someone should bring this up in the mayoral campaign.

 

[Adjei]

It's not getting built, the yard was cancelled by the province when the SRT was cancelled, getting things restarted and to the point were it can't be cancelled again will take far to long, Hudac will champion, but not build the Sheppard subway to get himself elected and the Liberals will at least hold off with the LRT to try and save seats.

The Yard wasn't cancelled, it's just going to much smaller than what was previously planned which was a combined yard both for Sheppard and Scarbrough RT. Metrolinx is also looking to accelerate construction of it.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20131205/20131205_BoardMtg_RTI_Report_EN.pdf

 

[smallspy]

ridership on the line will be high enough for all trains to through run.

You can think that all you like, but the people who actually have the numbers and projections and will be running the service - the TTC - have said that the ridership will be such that only every second train will run past Kennedy to Sheppard.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.