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smallspy said:
You can think that all you like, but the people who actually have the numbers and projections and will be running the service - the TTC - have said that the ridership will be such that only every second train will run past Kennedy to Sheppard.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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So I'm guessing a theoretical subway - like a Scarborough Express straight downtown with no transfer anywhere. - would not meet the cost benefit analysis at all then?
 
Adjei said:
The Yard wasn't cancelled, it's just going to much smaller than what was previously planned which was a combined yard both for Sheppard and Scarbrough RT. Metrolinx is also looking to accelerate construction of it.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20131205/20131205_BoardMtg_RTI_Report_EN.pdf
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The procurement for the yard itself has been cancelled, further lengthening the amount of time where the whole thing can be canned, I know they have said they will restart it later, but unless rails are being laid by next fall then we're screwed.
 
Voltz said:
The procurement for the yard itself has been cancelled, further lengthening the amount of time where the whole thing can be canned, I know they have said they will restart it later, but unless rails are being laid by next fall then we're screwed.
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So then we get nothing on Sheppard then.
 
They need to start construction ASAP. Even if the contracts for the yard haven't been signed. The good thing is that ML apparently wants to start construction on the line sooner
 
rbt said:
You're suggesting building parking for 20,000 cars?

Or are you suggesting that car drivers live on the highway and will be able to walk to the subway instead?
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Not all of them obviously. A weston/sheppard stop as Solid Snake and I mentioned would attract some traffic from the 400.
 
nfitz said:
What do you mean? Metrolinx is trying to accelerate Sheppard now that the SRT extension and upgrade is cancelled, and a whole wack of funding just became available.
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It's still not for certain, at this point I doubt that Metrolinx would accelerate the construction start to earlier than 2015, especially if they stick with their alternative procurement methods for the entire line,
 
TheTigerMaster said:
They need to start construction ASAP. Even if the contracts for the yard haven't been signed. The good thing is that ML apparently wants to start construction on the line sooner
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nfitz said:
What do you mean? Metrolinx is trying to accelerate Sheppard now that the SRT extension and upgrade is cancelled, and a whole wack of funding just became available.
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Guys.The key word is trying. I won't stop being jittery until I see guys on the road again. This should have started again this year. Especially since city council supported it.
 
Voltz said:
It's still not for certain, at this point I doubt that Metrolinx would accelerate the construction start to earlier than 2015, especially if they stick with their alternative procurement methods for the entire line,
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No, not certain. I wouldn't be surprised if the government simply takes the SRT cancellation as a bonanza, and doesn't respend the money elsewhere.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I'm worried about that area too. They'd be served well by the Scabrough-Malvern LRT, if we ever get around to building it.

My understanding is that the biggest problem with the Malvern LRT was that there would be so many riders on the LRVs that they'd be full by time they reached Kennedy Station. There just isn't enough capacity. This is why the Malvern LRT was never joined with the Eglinton LRT. A forced transfer was needed to encourage people to transfer to Bloor-Danforth. Elevating Eglinton East would have been a cheap way to eliminate this problem, but Council refused to consider it.
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To be fair to Council, I am not sure they were even present with the idea of elevating Eglinton. Can they be expected to come up with it on their own? I do not think any knows transit well enough to be able to do it. How would they even know if it is more or less expensive than an underground subway.

It was up to the experts at Metrolinx and TTC to come up with a way of building the transit system. Their purpose is to tell "truth to power".

  • Did Metrlolinx and the TTC consider the elevated option? One would think yes - after all, they said they would study it (http://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/2010/12/20/elevated_transit_among_metrolinxs_alternatives.html).
  • Did they provide this (along with all other options) to the Minister of Transportation and the TTC Chair? Again almost for sure yes.
  • Did this get provided to the Provincial government and the TTC Chair and Commissioners? Probably yes, but maybe no.
  • Did this get discussed in the Provincial legislature and at City council? Definitely no.

I do not have all the information, but I would guess that the blame falls somewhere between step 2 and 3.
 
innsertnamehere said:
den, there is plenty of reasoning behind it. its not another Sheppard. remember that the TTC itself (not just politicians) support it. It will have the same ridership figures as the DRL, and will be plenty busy. Considering the connectivity improvements it brings to scarborough and durham through the connections to DRT pulse and the sheppard LRT, it is well worth the cash IMO. It will likely improve Scarborough commutes by upwards of 10 minutes or more compared to the LRT option. I am of the opinion of building transit right, and the right choice for this corridor is the subway. While the DRL should probably be first, the needed replacement of the SRT makes this important to do first. Fords reasoning (as well as much of councils) behind supporting this project is not the reason to support it, but it is very much so a valuable and worthy investment IMO. it will also allow for Markham to set up feeder service, something not really feasible before. The extension is really going to change the face of transit in scarborough, allowing for more of a traditional bus-subway feeder system that has been so successful in Toronto that simply isn't possible with the LRT route and alignment.
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It is strange that in 2006 (Scarborough RT Strategic Plan – Study Report), the TTC found the B-D Subway extension to be the worst option. Now they say it is justified. Was the TTC incompetent in the past or are they bending to political pressure now?

Same thing with Metrolinx. For 5 years they have been planning the LRT replacement as the best solution and now they say the subway (albeit a different route) is the best solution. Was the Metrolinx incompetent in the past or are they bending to political pressure now?

And what confidence do we have that any statement, study or report made from/by Metrolinx or TTC is based on technical merit and not political pressure.
 
BurlOak said:
It is strange that in 2006 (Scarborough RT Strategic Plan – Study Report), the TTC found the B-D Subway extension to be the worst option. Now they say it is justified. Was the TTC incompetent in the past or are they bending to political pressure now?
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They found it to be the most expensive option. Soberman was actively pushing it as the best option provided work began immediately so it would be complete before the SRT needed an overhaul to remain functional.

The subway is still the most expensive option; and the SRT overhaul will be about $150M to keep it running.


The main difference is now we have an administration willing to fund it. Incidentally, Ford was loudly complaining about the 2014 tax increase despite a large chunk of the difference between the city recommendation and his personal target being the Scarborough subway extension.
 
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denfromoakvillemilton said:
Ok, I think the issue, at least with me is that Sheppard is a stubway. I am just looking for ways to improve the current situation. Although there is no guarantee highway users will switch to finch.
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Retrofit the subway so that LRVs can operate through it. Through running from Yonge to Morningside.
 
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