[ehlow]

First, SkyTrain is NOT a failed technology. Vancouver's SkyTrain has proven itself to be comfortable, energy efficient, fast, high frequency, reliable, cost effective, and a very safe............the hallmarks of great transit. The SRT has been a failure which is 100% the fault of TTC incompetence and has NOTHING to do with the technology.

If the SRT was already LRT then I could see making Eglinton LRT but the reality is that SRT is SkyTrain and if the TTC had it's act together it could be running a very efficient transit line. Some new track and heating and voila at least a billion saved and ages worth of construction time. Those huge saved fund could go towards elevating the Eglinton section to make Eglinton/SRT one non-stop SkyTrain line. The control and maintenance centre are already built, unlike Eglinton, saving more money and time and the line could be automated.

Yes, the tunnel portion of Eglinton can be automated but anything at grade can`t so basically it`s a mute point unless the TTC is planning on running all trains automated underground and then make people switch to at grade LRT at Don Mills. The whole point of automation is that the trains don`t need any drivers or personnel to run them except those at control. That is the real reason why Miller didnt want a long Eglinton-SRT line because it would hurt his union base`.

For those who use the stupid excuse of saying they need a driver or person to make sure the door close, I can only assume they have never been on an elevator. As far as not looking great, well this is a commercial strip and what the hell makes LRT tracks and wires all over the damn place so appealing.

Again: being able to automate isn't an advantage of Skytrain, it's an advantage of being fully grade separated. Both LRT & HRT can also be fully grade separated and automated. If you've decided that a given line is fully grade separated, you can have any of those technologies be automated.

For example: the Scarborough LRT with extension would have been fully grade separated, elevated in many places, and capable of automated operation. It used LRT technology & vehicles.

Automated isn't just for making sure there isn't an employee on the vehicle. In fact many automated systems have someone on the vehicle. Montreal for example. Automated allows better frequencies to increase capacity and much more precise, accurate and smooth driving.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The idea was to push all that traffic west and east. It does not look so great now but its a good idea imo. Plus it won't take 15 years like the DRL.

As outlined in DTRES, this will just cause further crowding in Union Station while doing nothing to relieve crowding at B-Y. It also will siphon riders from the $3.5 Bn Scarborough Subway that Tory also supports. It's a stupid, overpriced line (more than 4x the cost of GO RER) that could very well cause more problems than it solves.

Did Tory or anyone on his team even read the DTRES?

Well these are the same geniuses who thought it was possible to start construction on the Line 2 extension in 2015, so I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

... which has failed spectacularly twice in the last 2 weeks, and frequently has issues when it snows in Vancouver. Fortunately Toronto gets no where near as much snow or as cold winters as Vancouver.

Ye, if only our entire system would shut down for 5 hours because of a broken electrical breaker.. Now THAT is a sign of a great transit technology.

Again: being able to automate isn't an advantage of Skytrain, it's an advantage of being fully grade separated. Both LRT & HRT can also be fully grade separated and automated. If you've decided that a given line is fully grade separated, you can have any of those technologies be automated.

For example: the Scarborough LRT with extension would have been fully grade separated, elevated in many places, and capable of automated operation. It used LRT technology & vehicles.

Automated isn't just for making sure there isn't an employee on the vehicle. In fact many automated systems have someone on the vehicle. Montreal for example. Automated allows better frequencies to increase capacity and much more precise, accurate and smooth driving.

I hope you guys don't support the ATC on the crosstown then.

As outlined in DTRES, this will just cause further crowding in Union Station while doing nothing to relieve crowding at B-Y. It also will siphon riders from the $3.5 Bn Scarborough Subway that Tory also supports. It's a stupid, overpriced line (more than 4x the cost of GO RER) that could very well cause more problems than it solves.

Did Tory or anyone on his team even read the DTRES?

Well these are the same geniuses who thought it was possible to start construction on the Line 2 extension in 2015, so I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't.

Probably not. I only like the idea because it can be done fast. I think if he had proposed opening up more rail corridors for passenger service, then it would have gon much better,

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Ahh yes... You spend $8 Billion more, do nothing to relieve B-Y, make crowding at Union worse, make the Scarborough Subway more useless and after all this the Relief Line will still be necessary.

I'll just wait the few extra years for the proper Relief Line.

 

[Rainforest]

Ahh yes... You spend $8 Billion more, do nothing to relieve B-Y, make crowding at Union worse, make the Scarborough Subway more useless and after all this the Relief Line will still be necessary.

I'll just wait the few extra years for the proper Relief Line.

Yeah, I am also concerned that, even though SmartTrack sounds like a good idea in principle, its cost may be dangerously under-stated. The proper implementation might cost much more than stated, while a scaled-back implementation will fail to resolve the issues at hand; particularly the B-Y crowding.

 

[gweed123]

SmartTrack will never happen and he knows it. He's playing politics with that dead-end proposal in the hopes that it will help him in the polls, and it seems to have worked so far. It's also why he's still backing the B-D subway.

What I'm hoping is that the Scarborough Subway is on the map just not to piss people off during the election campaign (it is Tory after all, and he's trying to snatch Rob Ford's pro-subway less-crackhead voters). Here's what I'm hoping happens:

1) If Tory gets elected, Metrolinx and the City are on the same page when it comes to GO electrification/GO REX.

2) Metrolinx comes out and says that due to GO REX, the Scarborough Subway is no longer justified, and instead can be served by a GO REX spur to STC, and possibly further into Scarborough using the SRT extension alignment. GO EMU's will hopefully not be that different from the TTC LRT vehicles, so the change in vehicle type won't trigger a major design change. The extra $1.1 billion approved for the subway by the City can be rolled into another transit project (Eglinton West extension?).

3) Metrolinx and the TTC both acknowledge that funnelling all of this GO REX traffic into Union isn't going to work, so Metrolinx begins design on integrating the DRL into the GO REX system in order to provide some relief to Union GO, and the TTC subway network downtown.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I can't understand why this so called "fiscal conservative" would even support the $8 Billion SmartTrack plan. He could have just as easily said, "if I'm elected mayor, I will work with our provincial partners on canceling the Relief Line and adding a few more stops along GO corridors".

 

[nfitz]

I hope you guys don't support the ATC on the crosstown then.

Completely different technology. Also there's no proposal for driverless trains on the crosstown.

 

[gweed123]

I can't understand why this so called "fiscal conservative" would even support the $8 Billion SmartTrack plan. He could have just as easily said, "if I'm elected mayor, I will work with our provincial partners on canceling the Relief Line and adding a few more stops along GO corridors".

I can't understand how he got to $8 billion...

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I can't understand how he got to $8 billion...

Him and his campaign staff are eithet careless or liars.

 

[ehlow]

I hope you guys don't support the ATC on the crosstown then.

Completely different technology. Also there's no proposal for driverless trains on the crosstown.

ATC/ATO aka Automated train control will be running on the underground section of the Eglinton Crosstown.

Sources:
EA addendum April 2013 here:
http://stevemunro.ca/?p=7020

The alignment east of Mount Dennis Station has been designed to remain completely grade separated and protected including the junction leading to the maintenance yard. Metrolinx intends to use automatic train control on the underground section of Eglinton, and the yard access will be part of the ATC territory. (A detailed view of the yard layout is in Figure 3-7e.)

Unfortunately I can't copy and paste from these pdf docs for some reason, but you can read it:
Source:
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2013/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-57606.pdf
Section 2.1.1:
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2013/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-57610.pdf
Section 3.2.1

It clearly states that the underground part will be automated and have higher level of service than the at-grade part with turn-backs at the end of the tunnel.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

ATC/ATO aka Automated train control will be running on the underground section of the Eglinton Crosstown.

Sources:
EA addendum April 2013 here:
http://stevemunro.ca/?p=7020


Unfortunately I can't copy and paste from these pdf docs for some reason, but you can read it:
Source:
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2013/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-57606.pdf
Section 2.1.1:
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2013/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-57610.pdf
Section 3.2.1

It clearly states that the underground part will be automated and have higher level of service than the at-grade part with turn-backs at the end of the tunnel.

It will be ugly when a freeze happens in toronto like vancouver!

 

[CapitalSeven]

It will be ugly when a freeze happens in toronto like vancouver!

Ya, that's never happened before.

 

[smallspy]

What I'm hoping is that the Scarborough Subway is on the map just not to piss people off during the election campaign (it is Tory after all, and he's trying to snatch Rob Ford's pro-subway less-crackhead voters). Here's what I'm hoping happens:

1) If Tory gets elected, Metrolinx and the City are on the same page when it comes to GO electrification/GO REX.

2) Metrolinx comes out and says that due to GO REX, the Scarborough Subway is no longer justified, and instead can be served by a GO REX spur to STC, and possibly further into Scarborough using the SRT extension alignment. GO EMU's will hopefully not be that different from the TTC LRT vehicles, so the change in vehicle type won't trigger a major design change. The extra $1.1 billion approved for the subway by the City can be rolled into another transit project (Eglinton West extension?).

3) Metrolinx and the TTC both acknowledge that funnelling all of this GO REX traffic into Union isn't going to work, so Metrolinx begins design on integrating the DRL into the GO REX system in order to provide some relief to Union GO, and the TTC subway network downtown.

Are you willing to share what you are smoking?

Or at the very least, tell us who your dealer is so that we can try it?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[ehlow]

It will be ugly when a freeze happens in toronto like vancouver!

Tons of systems are automated, like Montreal. YUS Line 1 will be as well. Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the driver can take over if necessary.

Also we have problems now with signal issues all the time using 1960's technology. It's a good thing that they're upgrading line 1 to ATC.