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ehlow said:
nfitz said:
Completely different technology. Also there's no proposal for driverless trains on the crosstown.
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ATC/ATO aka Automated train control will be running on the underground section of the Eglinton Crosstown.
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Correct. There's already automated train control on the SRT. And there's been automated train control on most of Montreal's Metro lines for almost 40 years.

However neither have driverless trains.

There's no proposal for driverless trains on the Eglinton line.

It's the lack of drivers on the Vancouver trains that makes these issues much worse, because there's no one on the train to assist in the evacuation, unlike the automated Montreal Metro and on the automated SRT.
 
nfitz said:
Correct. There's already automated train control on the SRT. And there's been automated train control on most of Montreal's Metro lines for almost 40 years.

However neither have driverless trains.

There's no proposal for driverless trains on the Eglinton line.

It's the lack of drivers on the Vancouver trains that makes these issues much worse, because there's no one on the train to assist in the evacuation, unlike the automated Montreal Metro and on the automated SRT.
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OK, I guess it's a bit confusing with the world "driverless", since there can a person who works for the transit agency in the vehicle, but not actually doing the driving. Ex. Montreal has a person on the train, but not driving (unless they need to take over).

Eglinton from what I understand there will be a person in each vehicle, and I guess they will take over driving when the vehicle leaves the tunnel.

In Vancouver's case you're right, there's no fall-back to a human driver. Either way though, whether there's a staff member in the vehicle or not, the computer does the driving.

dowlingm said:
I thought SRT was not automated - or at least not to the degree Skytrain is?
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I don't think it is, but it can be. I don't know why..
 
Interesting article from the Globe re: Skytrain incident:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ers-told-next-time-dont-flee/article19800066/

Automated train control is one thing - I think there is value in having one (just one) operator (driver is a confusing term, since techically they wouldn't be doing any "driving") the vehicle for situations like these - if only for crowd psychology. And even Hong Kong's MTR got operators:

Driving trainer Po Kwai-keung, who has worked for the MTR for more than three decades, drove trains on the Tsuen Wan line for 11 years before he began teaching students at the MTR's training centre in Kowloon Bay with the aid of train simulators and other hardware.

He said trains have become steadily easier to run, thanks to improving technology, but they still need drivers to open and close doors, check platforms and apply the brakes.
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http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1297289/life-line

AoD
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
Interesting article from the Globe re: Skytrain incident:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ers-told-next-time-dont-flee/article19800066/

Automated train control is one thing - I think there is value in having one (just one) operator (driver is a confusing term, since techically they wouldn't be doing any "driving") the vehicle for situations like these - if only for crowd psychology. And even Hong Kong's MTR got operators:



http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1297289/life-line

AoD
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The trouble is, operators are unionized and thus expensive, and sometimes go on strike (TTC is supposed to be an essential service, but wildcat strikes are possible). Line 14 in Paris has never had operators on board, and Line 1 has been converted to automated operation recently. Paris has transit strikes all the time, but these two lines are normally running during the strike. Not sure this is really different from elevators, which haven't had human operators for many years now.
 
andrewpmk said:
The trouble is, operators are unionized and thus expensive, and sometimes go on strike (TTC is supposed to be an essential service, but wildcat strikes are possible). Line 14 in Paris has never had operators on board, and Line 1 has been converted to automated operation recently. Paris has transit strikes all the time, but these two lines are normally running during the strike. Not sure this is really different from elevators, which haven't had human operators for many years now.
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Personally I'd rather not compare elevators (multiple independent backup units, limited trip time and failure modes) to subways - and I don't think taking people out of the loops as a precaution against relatively rare strikes is a particularly sound decision.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Interesting article from the Globe re: Skytrain incident:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ers-told-next-time-dont-flee/article19800066/

Automated train control is one thing - I think there is value in having one (just one) operator (driver is a confusing term, since techically they wouldn't be doing any "driving") the vehicle for situations like these - if only for crowd psychology. And even Hong Kong's MTR got operators:



http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1297289/life-line

AoD
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In our case from what I understand it will go from 2 people per subway train to 1 person, who operates the doors, when ATC finally happens.
 
gweed123 said:
3) Metrolinx and the TTC both acknowledge that funnelling all of this GO REX traffic into Union isn't going to work, so Metrolinx begins design on integrating the DRL into the GO REX system in order to provide some relief to Union GO, and the TTC subway network downtown.
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I think a hybrid system whereby there are far more stations in the shoulder areas (east and west of downtown), a new downtown tunnel (probably along Wellington) and having this go right to YYZ (and leaving Eglinton Crosstown to go to the Airport Business Park) could potentially work though. If Chow was smart, she might just propose such a thing!
 
JasonParis said:
I think a hybrid system whereby there are far more stations in the shoulder areas (east and west of downtown), a new downtown tunnel (probably along Wellington) and having this go right to YYZ (and leaving Eglinton Crosstown to go to the Airport Business Park) could potentially work though. If Chow was smart, she might just propose such a thing!
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Yup, exactly. I'd like to see suburban subway-like stop spacing in the shoulder areas of the core (still useful enough to serve the local population, but not like Bloor-Danforth type stop spacing), and current GO spacing in the suburban areas.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Personally I'd rather not compare elevators (multiple independent backup units, limited trip time and failure modes) to subways - and I don't think taking people out of the loops as a precaution against relatively rare strikes is a particularly sound decision.

AoD
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Personally, I think that the main benefits to automatic train operation is that they allow the possibility of platform screen doors, instead of having open platforms. A lot of the delays that the TTC experiences, besides people pressing the emergency stop button, arise from things/people/garbage getting on the track. Plus there are ~20/year who attempt suicide on the TTC by jumping in front of subway cars, which is traumatizing for the drivers. The platform doors would also make it easier to air condition/heat the stations.

ATC also theoretically allows closer spacing of vehicles for higher frequencies at rush hour.
 
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