[coffey1]

So your solution is to force residents of north Scarborough to spend another 20 minutes on the bus so they can get on at Kennedy instead of STC/Sheppard?

What makes a bus hub at STC bad, but hubs at Kipling/Islington, Downsview, and Finch good?

Sorry to jump in. Aside from the cost im not against a subway to STC. But i believe with a full LRT network and GO RER running to the Kennedy/Sheppard area, North Scarborough will have effective access to the downtown area & an effective local network to get to the subway or GO RER (SmartTrack)

But if we are only allowed to build either small patches of a local network vs. a subway extension then I fully agree the subway extension is much more useful for the majority of Scarborough

 

[Voltz]

I will draw on a map when i get the chance. But It's pretty simple. It's basically the original transit City plan but FUNDED & modified for real life use in terms of fair integration, convenience, attractiveness, & funding to provide proper local network coverage

1. Convert the Sheppard stubway to LRT and build the Sheppard LRT to Meadowvale
2. Build the SMLRT to serve UTSC, Malvern, Kingston Galloway, Scarborough Village
3. Replace the RT with Eglinton LRT spur, GO RER spur or even the SLRT proposed.

IMO this is a useful, FAIR an effective plan.

The SSE takes a much more effective route than the RT/ proposed LRT for commuters in the East and Southeast. Therefore if we neglect to build the SMLRT than subway would be a much preferred option for many. If the SSE is built I fully expect Sheppard to loop. So the cost is likely over 5-6 billion.

Why not build a proper LRT network that integrates properly & garners support for all areas of the City. The cheaping out & building only patches is just as insane as building subways.

Well, as I've said before, if it were not for subways we would be on the way to getting much of that LRT network, but now that all that money is getting buried underground for the Scarborough subway, it won't happen.

 

[coffey1]

Well, as I've said before, if it were not for subways we would be on the way to getting much of that LRT network, but now that all that money is getting buried underground for the Scarborough subway, it won't happen.

No Chance. We were building a poorly integrated line on Sheppard & a somewhat improved RT (which had the bar set really low to begin with). The SMLRT was not even on the "next wave" which in eh real world basically means it is NEVER happening.

We were on the way to building a Political, short-sighted useless transit system in Scarborough. Just throwing in something cheaper & quicker is not the answer & its the reason we have Subways in discussion

The fear of building Subways may actually be the reason Scarborough transit gets take seriously by outside Politicians who have always been looking for the easy way out for Toronto's neglected outskirts.

LRT is great if integrated effectively & funded to built as a full network. Otherwise don't bother with questionable patches & transfers would which provides minimal benefit to the majority of Scarborough commuters.

 

[salsa]

Salsa asked if Lakeshore GO RER counts as a substitution to local transit for southern Scarborough.

That's not what I said. You said "South & all of South East Scarborough has & would recieve nothing. Not even a streetcar", but you neglected to mention that you were actually referring to local transit. I agree that local transit is just as important as GO transit, which is why I also support the SMLRT. Both are needed.

How can people really expect support in Scarborough for this nonsense LRT plan when we basically have Sheppard commuters arguing with themselves over the absurd LRT transfer to the stubway

Here's what that "absurd" transfer look like. Are you saying that walking across the platform to switch lines is so onerous that it's better to build no transit at all on Sheppard? I'm no fan of this transfer either, but building the LRT would not have prevented a conversion of the subway to LRT in the future. If people were given the chance to experience the Sheppard LRT, perhaps it would have been more politically palatable to do so.

How can people really expect support in Scarborough for this nonsense LRT plan when we basically have Sheppard commuters arguing with themselves over the absurd LRT transfer to the stubway, a large portion of Scarborough that will receive no transit in the South, South EAST and Central- East as there is no sign of the SMLRT in the next 100 years. The SSE support only grows stronger because of this failed & unfair LRT plan.

Fix the LRT design, fund a complete useful LRT network for all areas of Scarborough (and other neglected areas of Toronto as well) otherwise don't bother

A transit network is built one line at a time over several years, not funded and built all at once. Nevertheless, Scarborough was slated to get 3 new transit lines and an improved & extended SRT if it weren't for all the bickering by Scarborough politicians. By now those lines would have been in service or almost done by now, after which discussions could have begun on funding additional transit investment such as the Malvern SRT station, Sheppard subway conversion, or the SMLRT.

The LRT system you are calling for is exactly what could eventually be built if you would stop with your all or nothing approach. If your answer to the largest ever transit investment in Scarborough is "crap" and "don't bother" just because a couple of lines have been relegated to the future, then Scarborough will never have a transit network if it's not allowed to start from somewhere and then grow over time. For the record, David Miller fought hard to get the SMLRT built sooner just like you wanted, and Scarborough voters thanked him by overwhelmingly supporting the former crackhead mayor who scuttled almost everything that was accomplished. We all know what transpired since then, and in the end Scarborough is no longer building toward an eventual transit network, they're getting a 3 stop subway extension.

 

[coffey1]

Here's what that "absurd" transfer look like. Are you saying that walking across the platform to switch lines is so onerous that it's better to build no transit at all on Sheppard? I'm no fan of this transfer either, but building the LRT would not have prevented a conversion of the subway to LRT in the future. If people were given the chance to experience the Sheppard LRT, perhaps it would have been more politically palatable to do so.

View attachment 60792

Yes it's a ridiculous transfer. For those getting on from McCowan to Vic Park have already likely been on a bus & are now forced to transfer in the same bloody direction. This is not fair to the disabled, elderly or even the everyday commuter as a bus would be more convenient and add only a few minutes to the commute.

Where is the benefit? Why tear up the road & waste the money. Correct the Stubway mistake as this shouldn't be considered proper transit in any areas of the City

 

[coffey1]

A transit network is built one line at a time over several years, not funded and built all at once. Nevertheless, Scarborough was slated to get 3 new transit lines and an improved & extended SRT if it weren't for all the bickering by Scarborough politicians. By now those lines would have been in service or almost done by now, after which discussions could have begun on funding additional transit investment such as the Malvern SRT station, Sheppard subway conversion, or the SMLRT.

The LRT system you are calling for is exactly what could eventually be built if you would stop with your all or nothing approach. If your answer to the largest ever transit investment in Scarborough is "crap" and "don't bother" just because a couple of lines have been relegated to the future, then Scarborough will never have a transit network if it's not allowed to start from somewhere and then grow over time. For the record, David Miller fought hard to get the SMLRT built sooner just like you wanted, and Scarborough voters thanked him by overwhelmingly supporting the former crackhead mayor who scuttled almost everything that was accomplished. We all know what transpired since then, and in the end Scarborough is no longer building toward an eventual transit network, they're getting a 3 stop subway extension.

View attachment 60792

What could & eventually mean nothing in politics. Its pixie dust. Miller fought hard but still couldnt get his Provincial Liberals to fund the SMLRT. So even with a hard fight we lost a huge chuck of Scarborough support for LRT. The loss of that only made the ridiculous Sheppard LRT proposal stand out even more. Its second rate line.

You had & still have Sheppard residents heavily conflicted about an benefits the unfairly integrated LRT line will bring. And rightfully so. So you've lost even more residents to support the LRT plan.

Ford is a bi-product of political neglect & I as well fully support the subways until something useful is proposed. Scarborough as a whole is heavily neglected to begin with so you really think we believe that something is coming in the future. Cmon no sane soul would ever accept a "future" deal from politicians.

The SLRT & Sheppard patch provides no real value to improving Scarborough. But no one seems to give a crap because its cheap & easy.

 

[nfitz]

Yes it's a ridiculous transfer. For those getting on from McCowan to Vic Park have already likely been on a bus & are now forced to transfer in the same bloody direction

There's never been any suggestions to build the subway along Sheppard to McCowan. So instead of giving them a fast LRT, you are going to make them sit in a bus?

Had the line been built on the schedule promised by the McGuinty and Harper governments when they fully funded it, it would have been open by now. This would be an infinite improvement over what is currently there. It takes forever to get from the subway platform at Don Mills up to the buses!

 

[sixrings]

I agree with NFitz and also once the line is up and it is better, people can then decide if converting Sheppard to subway makes sense. As it stands now Sheppard gets nothing and I don't think that is better. No transit will never be better then good transit if great transit isn't an option.

 

[coffey1]

There's never been any suggestions to build the subway along Sheppard to McCowan. So instead of giving them a fast LRT, you are going to make them sit in a bus?

Had the line been built on the schedule promised by the McGuinty and Harper governments when they fully funded it, it would have been open by now. This would be an infinite improvement over what is currently there. It takes forever to get from the subway platform at Don Mills up to the buses!

I think there have been & will be even more suggestions of the Sheppard East subway is the SSE moves forward. I fully disagree with your infinite improvement statement. There would be an infinite inconvenience to many riders.

Im saying dont build anything until you can build it properly.

 

[salsa]

Yes it's a ridiculous transfer. For those getting on from McCowan to Vic Park have already likely been on a bus & are now forced to transfer in the same bloody direction. This is not fair to the disabled, elderly or even the everyday commuter as a bus would be more convenient and add only a few minutes to the commute.

Where is the benefit? Why tear up the road & waste the money. Correct the Stubway mistake as this shouldn't be considered proper transit in any areas of the City

I agree that it's ridiculous, but as I said, the LRT does not prevent the subway mistake from being corrected later. But in the meantime, this would have literally been the easiest transfer in the entire TTC system. If I was an elderly person, I think I would much prefer that than walking down hundreds of stairs between the dingy bus terminal and the platform. As someone who used to use this station on a regular basis, don't tell me the existing situation is more convenient.

 

[coffey1]

I agree that it's ridiculous, but as I said, the LRT does not prevent the subway mistake from being corrected later. But in the meantime, this would have literally been the easiest transfer in the entire TTC system. If I was an elderly person, I think I would much prefer that than walking down hundreds of stairs between the dingy bus terminal and the platform. As someone who used to use this station on a regular basis, don't tell me the existing situation is more convenient.

View attachment 60798

2 wrongs dont make a right. We need to start building things properly from the start. Later & delaying things never comes in Political planning. Cheaping out and neglecting large chucks of Scarborough from the get-go will only lead to further divisive Politics in this City.

Although Ford is a buffoon he atleast acknowledged the neglect & is a biproduct of many voters who are being told instead of listened too. Tory also had to acknowledge to squeak in but no one knows how sincere anything Tory has to say is so the respect may fade quickly. Sooner or later it's going to take more than an acknowledgement or this divisive politics will continue to grow. This patchwork LRT plan would only create a 3rd layer of neglect within Scarborough itself as many areas receive zero benefit & the effects would last along time.

I just dont understand why its so crazy to integrate an LRT network fairly from the start & attempt to fund enough of the network to provide benefits for the majority of residents. That alone tells me all i need to know about how one sided politics are in this City & Province

 

[sixrings]

you have to start somewhere, which is what they are trying to do. Deciding between platinum transit plans or nothing is the same as expecting and being ok with nothing. You know what that only hurts scarborough and places like Brampton too. Kitchener, Mississauga, Hamilton all are OK with not perfection. This way of thinking is only going to further the demise of brampton and scarborough transit speaking.

 

[coffey1]

you have to start somewhere, which is what they are trying to do. Deciding between platinum transit plans or nothing is the same as expecting and being ok with nothing. You know what that only hurts scarborough and places like Brampton too. Kitchener, Mississauga, Hamilton all are OK with not perfection. This way of thinking is only going to further the demise of brampton and scarborough transit speaking.

Are you kidding.

A more realistic comparison would be Mississauga receiving a Subway along Hurontario and the changing the technology to LRT in Brampton. Now that would be just absurd planning. But outside Politicians & highly Political newspapers fight to force that type of plan upon Scarborough & consider that acceptable in Toronto

All those 905 lines are planned effectively to become the main central artery through these Cities that have been heavily planned for future growth or planned for revitalization by local Politicians. Scarborough is directly connected to Metro TORONTO & is connecting to existing infrastructure none of those other LRT lines are & is a completely different animal. Sorry no comparison

 

[salsa]

I just dont understand why its so crazy to integrate an LRT network fairly from the start & attempt to fund enough of the network to provide benefits for the majority of residents. That alone tells me all i need to know about how one sided politics are in this City & Province

There is NO MONEY to build an entire transit network all at once instead of doing it one line at at time, as was always done before. This may be news to you, but apparently there are other neighbourhoods all over Toronto and the GTA that are also waiting for transit. The magnitude of investment needed is unprecedented and may require several generations to fully address. But speaking of one sided, when was the last time a new rapid transit line was built in the rapidly growing downtown? How many more suburban subway projects are we gonna keep building until the DRL will stop being ignored?

 

[coffey1]

There is NO MONEY to build an entire transit network all at once instead of doing it one line at at time. This may be news to you, but apparently there are other neighbourhoods all over Toronto and the GTA that are also waiting for transit. The magnitude of investment needed is unprecedented. But speaking of one sided, when was the last time a new rapid transit line was built in the rapidly growing downtown? How many more suburban subway projects are we gonna keep building until the DRL will stop being ignored?

See this is the exact nonsense im talking about. Its the fear that if we building anything useful the DRL wont get built. I wont fooled into this devise nonsense. The DRL should be built and a properly funded LRT network should be built in the urban-burbs.

This is a major reason for the cheap & easy LRT plan being pushed into Scarborough. Transit needs built, maintained and service levels increased. Instead of fighting locally we should be working together to demand from the higher levels of government to fund the transit growth properly. Instead of Subways vs LRT, Suburbs Vs Downtown, blah blah.

There are many priorities & it should never be one vs the other. If there no funding as you say... It's time to find it because this isnt going away. Toronto and the GTA brings in huge tax revenue for the Province & Country and they are getting away with not confronting this transit growth with a proper strategy.