[amnesiajune]

At this point 2022 would be more likely if they decide to switch now.

If we're going by "2026 completion is based on a construction start date of 2021", 2022 still seems early - that would imply that the city can verify (and, if necessary, update) the LRT design, get everything approved (since some regulatory approvals expire and others would likely need to be modified), and get shovels in the ground within a year.

 

[amnesiajune]

A revitalized STC may convince employers to established themselves there instead of Markham or Vaughan.

The problem with STC (and all the "city centres" aside from North York) will always be property taxes - you pay the same rate regardless of whether you're located in Scarborough, Etobicoke or the Financial District. If the city had different rates for different areas, then it would be a lot easier to bring businesses to STC, considering the ample space, nearby mall and freeway, TTC & GO bus connections. But you get most of those benefits 8 kilometers up the road along Kennedy and pay a much lower tax rate - 1.67% versus 2.76% - so why are you going to locate your business in Scarborough?

 

[salsa]

More subway news!


After pushing for its approval, subway champions are not happy with where it will be built.

The TTC’s current alignment has the tunnel swerving east of McCowan south of Ellesmere Avenue, under homes, a plaza and a woodlot before ending at a station in what is now the mall’s eastern parking lot. De Baeremaeker called the route “a horrible imposition on our community,” because of five years of construction that would include dust, noise, and other difficulties. “I’m now working and lobbying to stop this alignment from happening.”

The new route he proposes, which he calles the Big Bend, would add another 280 metres of tunnel. He wouldn't say how much this would increase the cost.

And of course, Debaeremaeker also had a few words to say about the star article which exposed misleading information that the mayor used to kill the LRT. “They throw out numbers”.

Subway supporters are still in a political battle against a “downtown bloc” of councillors ”trying to stop and sabotage this subway every single time that they can.” De Baeremaeker referred to the Star story as propaganda. “They throw out numbers and numbers and will say anything.”

Brad Duguid said he’s determined to see the subway built. “This project will be cancelled over my dead body.”

http://www.insidetoronto.com/news-s...ay-champions-want-ttc-s-likely-route-changed/

 

[crs1026]

I'm having a hard time believing that the "environmental issues" presented by the TTC's option are all that serious or pervasive. A small amount of residential property is involved one way or the other. The impact is all on commercial property..... ie, developers and landowners who might benefit down the road from where the end location of the station is placed.

The Big Bend option precludes any further extension of Line 2 to the north or east, and it pretty much forces the Line 2/Sheppard single line scenario. That scenario has always existed, but has never been found to be the preferential option. The impacts of that decision for bigger transit routing decisions far outweighs any cost comparison between the two routes, and it affects larger parts of the city. So yes, I would expect Councillors from other parts of the City to weigh in.

Seems to me there has likely been some friendly conversation between De Baeremaeker and developers with vested interests. That hardly represents city building. At best, it's letting smaller interests override transit planning... and selling out the end goal of creating the best possible transit for all of Scarborough. Or perhaps it's a sneaky ploy to force the City's hand to extend subways on Sheppard.

This whole thing is looking more crass by the day.

- Paul

 

[Rainforest]

those figures produced to go back to LRT by the TTC are bogus. Did people not read the Toronto Star article

The Toronto Star article itself is misleading in a number of ways.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I did read the Toronto Star article, and the only thing that's "bogus" is its claim that the LRT would be finished within four years. Just think about that for a minute. The Finch West LRT is already at the RFP stage, it isn't much longer than the SRT replacement, and doesn't require building eight new wheelchair-accessible stations, of which three or four would be grade-separated. How is the SRT replacement supposed to be finished by 2020 when the Finch West LRT isn't going to be finished until 2021 at the earliest?

The article never claimed it would be done by 2020.

 

[Rainforest]

It might seem reasonable to you, but the argument that the supporters have put forward in favour of this plan is that relocating jobs to Scarborough will somehow attract the private sector to do the same. That is not gonna work:

Indeed, the assumption that relocating the government jobs will prompt the private sector do the same is dubious, or at least not supported by any stats.

I see other benefits in relocating those jobs: a bit less crowding on the downtown subway lines, and more job opportunities for the locals.

Sure, if they live in the East end (as you pointed out). I wonder how many west end residents would agree with that. Or people who rely on GO transit. For every person that this would benefit, somebody else will be mightily inconvenienced.

Most of people are partly mobile in their jobs. Not able to switch jobs immediately, but can find a job in a more convenient location after a period of search.

In that view, having the government jobs somewhat distributed between multiple nodes is preferable to concentrating all of them in downtown Toronto.

For those people who prefer to work in downtown, options are still plentiful. That's the largest employment node in GTA, and will remain the largest in the foreseeable future.

For the record, I would be just as happy to work in North York, if it's on Yonge St. My commute would be even easier. Whereas to get to Scarborough Centre I would have to take a bus, subway, and then another bus. Cycling is not an option as the route is too distant, hilly, and unsafe. I hope you also realize that most office buildings in Scarborough Centre are not well served by the RT to begin with, and will be even less so with the one stop subway. A lot of people may face a 15-20 minute walk, or have to transfer to a bus.

I think that 20 min is an exaggeration. STC is bounded by Brimley, McCowan, Ellesmere, and Hwy 401. That's a rectangle 800 m wide and 1,200 m long. Three out of 4 corners are occupied by a parkette, a 401 ramp, and a supermarket, thus not suitable for office jobs. Assuming that the subway station and the bus terminal remain close to the middle of the area, most of office buildings should be within 1,000 m walking distance from the station. That's a 12 min walk for an average person (5 kph).

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

More subway news!


After pushing for its approval, subway champions are not happy with where it will be built.


View attachment 90023




The new route he proposes, which he calles the Big Bend, would add another 280 metres of tunnel. He wouldn't say how much this would increase the cost.

View attachment 90024


And of course, Debaeremaeker also had a few words to say about the star article which exposed misleading information that the mayor used to kill the LRT. “They throw out numbers”.



http://www.insidetoronto.com/news-s...ay-champions-want-ttc-s-likely-route-changed/

I'm having a hard time believing that the "environmental issues" presented by the TTC's option are all that serious or pervasive. A small amount of residential property is involved one way or the other. The impact is all on commercial property..... ie, developers and landowners who might benefit down the road from where the end location of the station is placed.

The Big Bend option precludes any further extension of Line 2 to the north or east, and it pretty much forces the Line 2/Sheppard single line scenario. That scenario has always existed, but has never been found to be the preferential option. The impacts of that decision for bigger transit routing decisions far outweighs any cost comparison between the two routes, and it affects larger parts of the city. So yes, I would expect Councillors from other parts of the City to weigh in.

Seems to me there has likely been some friendly conversation between De Baeremaeker and developers with vested interests. That hardly represents city building. At best, it's letting smaller interests override transit planning... and selling out the end goal of creating the best possible transit for all of Scarborough. Or perhaps it's a sneaky ploy to force the City's hand to extend subways on Sheppard.

This whole thing is looking more crass by the day.

- Paul

LMAO! The Sheppard east creep is real. "The big bend" is designed to go to north of STC, and then Progres... Don't say I didn't warn you guys this would happen. This is totally leading into the "we need to close the gap so finish Sheppard" argument. The city and province will cave on that too.

 

[Rainforest]

So if you move 3000 jobs to STC from downtown how many of those people will drive to work vs taking transit. If its anything like my wifes suburban work then a large percentage will drive. If 50% drive then we are talking about 1500 riders or 3000 trips daily. If 66% drive then we are down to 1000 transit riders and only 2000 trips a day.

The removal of those 3,000 peak-direction trips into downtown will result in a little less crowding on the subways, and will be partly back-filled by riders who would not have a space at all otherwise. Thus, it's not necessarily negative from the transit usage perspective.

Either way how does this even remotely justify a transit project that will cost billions more than its alternative.

I never said moving a mere 3,000 jobs will give a significant new justification to SSE.

My view is that if SSE is happening anyway, moving those jobs is a good idea in some ways.

I guess Coffey is gone so now someone else has to pick up the Scarborough deserves a subway mantle.

Don't you think this thread would become pretty boring if everyone had same opinion.

That said, I am not taking the job of the official SSE advocate. I cannot post here on a regular basis, or even monitor the thread constantly, being often occupied by other tasks.

 

[WislaHD]

LMAO! The Sheppard east creep is real. "The big bend" is designed to go to north of STC, and then Progres... Don't say I didn't warn you guys this would happen. This is totally leading into the "we need to close the gap so finish Sheppard" argument. The city and province will cave on that too.

Let's do it. But attach a Relief Line going to Sheppard as part of the deal.

 

[Rainforest]

More subway news!


After pushing for its approval, subway champions are not happy with where it will be built.


View attachment 90023




The new route he proposes, which he calles the Big Bend, would add another 280 metres of tunnel. He wouldn't say how much this would increase the cost.

View attachment 90024


And of course, Debaeremaeker also had a few words to say about the star article which exposed misleading information that the mayor used to kill the LRT. “They throw out numbers”.



http://www.insidetoronto.com/news-s...ay-champions-want-ttc-s-likely-route-changed/

IMO, they are going to far, and not in the right direction.

I admire their determination to get the subway built. But if they want the terminus to be closer to the current STC station, which makes sense, then the Brimley route is shorter and likely cheaper.

 

[WislaHD]

I admire their determination to get the subway built. But if they want the terminus to be closer to the current STC station, which makes sense, then the Brimley route is shorter and likely cheaper.

Or surface alignment.

I really hope that consultation report coffey was talking frequently about lists the surface alignment as a serious option.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Let's do it. But attach a Relief Line going to Sheppard as part of the deal.

IMO, they are going to far, and not in the right direction.

I admire their determination to get the subway built. But if they want the terminus to be closer to the current STC station, which makes sense, then the Brimley route is shorter and likely cheaper.

Or surface alignment.

I really hope that consultation report coffey was talking frequently about lists the surface alignment as a serious option.

I agree Wisla: Let's do it, and bring the DRL to Fairview mall. Need to get all those new riders away from Yonge. Might as well bite the bullet, what do we lose here?

Rainforest, they're not going too far: this was the entire plan. It would more sense to bring the new line to sheppard or finch east... unless you though curving the line to the north would help make the case for completing Sheppard!

 

[44 North]

Or surface alignment.

I really hope that consultation report coffey was talking frequently about lists the surface alignment as a serious option.

So is the surface alignment still a possibility? I get that city council voted on the single station McCowan route, but is that more of a temporary formality? TTM linked the 2013 Surface Feasibility Study to me earlier, and I feel like it wasn't brought up in any debate. It's a bit wonky, but perhaps it would offer the compromise people want: relative affordability and a subway.

*Looking over the costs chart, take notice of the difference between the elevated station and underground station. $24,000,000 vs $240,000,000...ten times more! That's unreal. Hopefully people read that number and get why there are supporters of using elevated rail for subway expansion.

 

[Rainforest]

Rainforest, they're not going too far: this was the entire plan. It would more sense to bring the new line to sheppard or finch east... unless you though curving the line to the north would help make the case for completing Sheppard!

I get your point. I just don't see how Sheppard can get funded in the today's environment.

John Tory can lose 10% of his vote if he backtracks on SSE and allows it to die. But he will not lose more than 1% if he refuses to entertain Sheppard. That's a rounding error. Then, why would he commit to take one more burden and carry it.

The provincial government is roughly in the same situation.