[smallspy]

Old Kennedy would just be sold to developers and condos built. There would be no lasting white elephant.

How do you sell an underground edifice to developers when everything above it - and a lot of the inside of it - is still being used? Are you even remotely familiar with the area?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Fred.S]

The proposal to move the subway station under the existing SRT station sounds very expensive to me, and reusing the SRT structure also seems mostly unfeasible for subway. Also STC, is much more horizontally-oriented, as shown in the map Salsa posted.

That got me thinking, why not keep the SRT line east of Ellesmere, and build a new interchange and bus terminal at McCowan. The subway station could interface with McCowan SRT , and there's lots of land there to build a new bus terminal, perhaps integrated into a new development.

The SRT could then be converted to LRT after the subway opens, and extended east to Centennial College, and Malvern. Perhaps move Ellesmere to a new terminal just west at Kennedy, or extend up to Agincourt GO, or even to Don Mills Station as the Sheppard LRT. The existing Scarborough Centre Station could be kept, and the bus terminal below it redeveloped, maybe as an expansion to the mall.

Edit: I've made a map of this over in the fantasy maps thread: http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/transit-fantasy-maps.3005/page-296

 

[salsa]

Mayor Tory has met with the community group who proposed the alternative "big bend" alignment. Says he is open to the idea.

 

[rbt]

Mayor Tory has met with the community group who proposed the alternative "big bend" alignment. Says he is open to the idea.

Of course he is; the longer this thing gets delayed the less likely it is that he'll have to deal with the financial part.

Either the next mayor (elected in 2022) can fund/cancel it OR maybe the province will step in (Brown?) and promise to fund 100% of the subway option.

 

[Hopkins123]

Not a fan of it bending back westwards. Scarborough simply doesn't end at McCowan Road.

If we're out to recycle stations, may as well preserve Lawrence East and Ellesmere Stns too and go for a SRT alignment. Building a new Kennedy Stn on the axis can't cost as much as the $4.2 billion McCowan alignment.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Mayor Tory has met with the community group who proposed the alternative "big bend" alignment. Says he is open to the idea.

This dumb bend will probably add $200 - $300 Million to project costs. Looks to be a lot of additional tunnelling.

 

[sixrings]

Why don't we just move STC to agincourt mall. Then you can extend Sheppard and have a GO station. It would be accessable by highway from Kennedy, GO/smarttrack and TTC

 

[Forgotten]

It really can't be that hard to rebuild Kennedy station and the curves to route a subway train onto them can it? Do the stations need to be lengthened?

I can help with that. It's not difficult at all and if you read the reports churned out by the planning cabal, alternative Scarborough subway alignments fared better on their very own scorecards. However you will find language in there that basically says "It rates the highest in the important areas but too much disruption. Next!" Oh and something about ScamTrack too. The Tory would not be pleased.

Exactly the same thing happened with the downtown subway. The cabal's choice lost on their own scorecards but you will find language in those reports saying King St is too busy to disrupt, better to dig where it's not so busy people would notice too much and something something ScamTrack.

It's new age planning principles at work.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The proposal to move the subway station under the existing SRT station sounds very expensive to me, and reusing the SRT structure also seems mostly unfeasible for subway. Also STC, is much more horizontally-oriented, as shown in the map Salsa posted.

That got me thinking, why not keep the SRT line east of Ellesmere, and build a new interchange and bus terminal at McCowan. The subway station could interface with McCowan SRT , and there's lots of land there to build a new bus terminal, perhaps integrated into a new development.

The SRT could then be converted to LRT after the subway opens, and extended east to Centennial College, and Malvern. Perhaps move Ellesmere to a new terminal just west at Kennedy, or extend up to Agincourt GO, or even to Don Mills Station as the Sheppard LRT. The existing Scarborough Centre Station could be kept, and the bus terminal below it redeveloped, maybe as an expansion to the mall.

Edit: I've made a map of this over in the fantasy maps thread: http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/transit-fantasy-maps.3005/page-296

Mayor Tory has met with the community group who proposed the alternative "big bend" alignment. Says he is open to the idea.

Of course he is; the longer this thing gets delayed the less likely it is that he'll have to deal with the financial part.

Either the next mayor (elected in 2022) can fund/cancel it OR maybe the province will step in (Brown?) and promise to fund 100% of the subway option.

Not a fan of it bending back westwards. Scarborough simply doesn't end at McCowan Road.

If we're out to recycle stations, may as well preserve Lawrence East and Ellesmere Stns too and go for a SRT alignment. Building a new Kennedy Stn on the axis can't cost as much as the $4.2 billion McCowan alignment.

This dumb bend will probably add $200 - $300 Million to project costs. Looks to be a lot of additional tunnelling.

Why don't we just move STC to agincourt mall. Then you can extend Sheppard and have a GO station. It would be accessable by highway from Kennedy, GO/smarttrack and TTC

Okay, but you guys have to see the play here: By bending the subway west, this makes Sheppard more viable because all the riders will be dumped off at progres, at which time the city will be forced to build a station on progres west of STC, so then it becomes "why not finish sheppard rather then have a reverse stub?" Genius play by Glenn, great politics but bad planning and blatant dishonesty.


They should go back to the SRT alignment, pay up for sheppard like Wisla said and extend the subway to Malvern. At least make this work for all of Scarborough, like hopkins says.

I can help with that. It's not difficult at all and if you read the reports churned out by the planning cabal, alternative Scarborough subway alignments fared better on their very own scorecards. However you will find language in there that basically says "It rates the highest in the important areas but too much disruption. Next!" Oh and something about ScamTrack too. The Tory would not be pleased.

Exactly the same thing happened with the downtown subway. The cabal's choice lost on their own scorecards but you will find language in those reports saying King St is too busy to disrupt, better to dig where it's not so busy people would notice too much and something something ScamTrack.

It's new age planning principles at work.

Exactly.

 

[44 North]

In Early 2016 council directed TTC to study the surface alignment. The TTC studied a hook shaped alignment, where the extension would travel east from Kennedy and then travel northwest to the existing SRT corridor. The TTC determined this was not desirable due to high costs (almost as high as McCowan alignment) and added travel time.

But this is not the alignment that Metrolinx studied and determined was possible. I don't know why they didn't study the Metrolinx alignment.

Seems to be something fishy. Don't have a copy, but did the 2016 TTC report make any mention of the 2013 Metrolinx report? And did Council ever make any mention of the Metrolinx report at any time? Perhaps the Star should put some of their SSE witch hunt focus on why this report was practically ignored/buried.

 

[crs1026]

Okay, but you guys have to see the play here: By bending the subway west, this makes Sheppard more viable because all the riders will be dumped off at progres, at which time the city will be forced to build a station on progres west of STC, so then it becomes "why not finish sheppard rather then have a reverse stub?" Genius play by Glenn, great politics but bad planning and blatant dishonesty.

Exactly. His willingness to sell out the many Scarborough transit riders who won't see any benefit from this configuration makes a mockery of his whole campaign to get Scarborough "its fair share".

Build the one-stop extension if we must - but stop there and get the DRL going.

- Paul

 

[BurlOak]

How do you sell an underground edifice to developers when everything above it - and a lot of the inside of it - is still being used? Are you even remotely familiar with the area?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

What is it being used for - a museum. When the new alignment is built, roughly 150m by 50m would be freed up.

Figure 5 from Metrolinx Report.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Seems to be something fishy. Don't have a copy, but did the 2016 TTC report make any mention of the 2013 Metrolinx report? And did Council ever make any mention of the Metrolinx report at any time? Perhaps the Star should put some of their SSE witch hunt focus on why this report was practically ignored/buried.

Anybody here have a link to this year's TTC report regarding the feasibility of a surface alignment?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Seems to be something fishy. Don't have a copy, but did the 2016 TTC report make any mention of the 2013 Metrolinx report? And did Council ever make any mention of the Metrolinx report at any time? Perhaps the Star should put some of their SSE witch hunt focus on why this report was practically ignored/buried.

I found the report here. We should compare why ML says it is possible, and why TTC disagrees.

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2016/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-94622.pdf

 

[CapitalSeven]

Why don't we just move STC to agincourt mall. Then you can extend Sheppard and have a GO station. It would be accessable by highway from Kennedy, GO/smarttrack and TTC

Or, bulldoze STC, replace it with Toronto Central Park, and rebuild it at Kennedy.