[lead82]

Hearing the same arguments heard several times. This is the price we pay to live in a democracy. It's not efficient but people's voices get heard. The people of Scarborough have spoken and they want a subway. I don't agree with it and think LRT would be more efficient but the TTC has screwed it up since there is not a single LRT example in this city. I blame Miller for his screw up of St. Clair. That should have been the LRT showcase. Instead it's another local like with stops every 200m and a slow (but now reliable) crawl across the line.

We need to move past this debate. The subway is happening. The LRT is dead. The question now should be should we add a stop at Lawrence (and drop it on SmartTrack) and should we extend it up to Sheppard or Centennial college rather than end at SCC.

My view is that SmartTrack east stations at Finch and Lawrence should be scrapped. Lawrence East should be added to Line 2 extension. The line should be extended to at least Centennial College. Perhaps the line can come above ground around there to save costs.

In addition, the city should fund the Eglinton East LRT by cancelling Sheppard LRT. Sheppard didn't have support for it.

I'm hoping Tory wins the next vote at council so this can proceed to final design and perhaps construction. Yes the cost will be $5B once all things are said and done.

 

[Rainforest]

*Where*? In an industrial corridor, like the present SRT line, sure, I detailed that, but correct me if I'm wrong, since you are very difficult to follow, you are suggesting elevated along the alignment most commonly proposed?

If the Midland route was selected, then the subway could be elevated next to the west side of Midland for about 2 km, from just south of Lawrence to just south of Ellesmere. There are no residential houses on that side, only commercial buildings.

 

[Rainforest]

I am new here so sorry if I missed anything on this, but why can't be just upgrade the existing guideway to accommodate new light metro vehicles? This option wouldn't serve less people than the one stop subway.

1) Many Scarborough residents do not like the existing SRT line because it forces them to transfer twice: first from a bus to SRT, then from SRT to the subway.

2) SRT runs in the Uxbridge Sub rail corridor, space in this corridor is needed for the enhanced GO RER / SmartTrack service. It should be possible to fit both lines in this corridor, but that would complicate the GO RER upgrades.

 

[kEiThZ]

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2017/03/21/reseau-electrique-metropolitain-la-facture-grimpe-de-10
just for general info:
The Montreal REM cost just jumped from $5.5B to $6.04B in less than a year.+

oh...Canada. Was Sheppard Subway the last rapid transit expansion that was on time and budget?

Correct me if I'm wrong. I believe Ottawa's LRT is currently on time and budget. Possibly even ahead on both from the looks of it.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I blame Miller for his screw up of St. Clair. That should have been the LRT showcase. Instead it's another local like with stops every 200m and a slow (but now reliable) crawl across the line.

It was never supposed to be an LRT line the screw up was because of the business along it causing detals with court battles and the Toronto Hydro digging up the completed road and streetcar right of way. Thee's a round about argument with Cognac that can be applied here the example is all Cognacs are Brandys but not all Brandys are Congans. The one I would put forth is all Streetcars are LRT but not all LRTS are Streetcars in other words. LRT refers to the type of vehicle and not the use of it which confuses people all the time.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Correct me if I'm wrong. I believe Ottawa's LRT is currently on time and budget. Possibly even ahead on both from the looks of it.

True but they haven't had ridiculous council debates with the mayor screaming about subways all the time or standing up and saying the project is canceled because they missed all of the votes on the building of the line in the first place.

 

[Cobra]

True but they haven't had ridiculous council debates with the mayor screaming about subways all the time or standing up and saying the project is canceled because they missed all of the votes on the building of the line in the first place.

Pretty sure they flip flop once on the route

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Pretty sure they flip flop once on the route

Yeah but not nearly as much as city Council did here. We should have had the replacement for the SRT up and running by now or at least in testing

 

[TheTigerMaster]

When can we expect construction to start on the extension?

I found this preliminary schedule, but we're clearly nowhere near meeting that: https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/sseprojschedule201505.jpg

 

[JoEddie7677]

When can we expect construction to start on the extension?

I found this preliminary schedule, but we're clearly nowhere near meeting that: https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/sseprojschedule201505.jpg

This is from tomm TTC board meeting CEO report. Earliest opening date of SSE is now 2026

 

[cplchanb]

This is from tomm TTC board meeting CEO report. Earliest opening date of SSE is now 2026

given the polarising attitudes for and against this project and the fact that the election is coming up next year I have serious doubts even 2026 is going to be met. Most likely
there will be another round of debates and "studies" that will lead us back to square one. I fully expect another 4 years on top by which time the costs will have gone up by another billion.

 

[coopEng]

Hearing the same arguments heard several times. This is the price we pay to live in a democracy. It's not efficient but people's voices get heard. The people of Scarborough have spoken and they want a subway. I don't agree with it and think LRT would be more efficient but the TTC has screwed it up since there is not a single LRT example in this city. I blame Miller for his screw up of St. Clair. That should have been the LRT showcase. Instead it's another local like with stops every 200m and a slow (but now reliable) crawl across the line.

We need to move past this debate. The subway is happening. The LRT is dead. The question now should be should we add a stop at Lawrence (and drop it on SmartTrack) and should we extend it up to Sheppard or Centennial college rather than end at SCC.

My view is that SmartTrack east stations at Finch and Lawrence should be scrapped. Lawrence East should be added to Line 2 extension. The line should be extended to at least Centennial College. Perhaps the line can come above ground around there to save costs.

In addition, the city should fund the Eglinton East LRT by cancelling Sheppard LRT. Sheppard didn't have support for it.

I'm hoping Tory wins the next vote at council so this can proceed to final design and perhaps construction. Yes the cost will be $5B once all things are said and done.

St. Clair was never going to be a showcase for LRT as it is a local streetcar route serving local demand. St. Clair has absolutely nothing to do with this SRT/SSE screw-up. It is exactly as it was intended to be - as you note a local line with close stop spacing. Could that have been tweaked a bit to get rid of some stops? sure - but it wouldn't have turned St. Clair into a route that could compare to the SRT (grade separated, longer multi-car LRT trains, etc.).

The political push has been from misinformation ("subways, subways, subways", streetcars are terrible, and poor Scarborough is getting screwed by the Downtowners). Its clear the decision to eliminate the transfer at Kennedy is only based on ideology and the political pressure that this is "the right thing to do". When the dust settles, there will be nice new subway running to STC to make Oxford and the subway or nothing people nice and happy while the majority of the residents will still spend the majority of their commute in traffic on a bus. There will be no increase in rapid transit service in Scarborough beyond eliminating a transfer and spending all this money now will essentially eliminate future work on transit expansion there. The money will be spent, people will claim a glorious victory and then you will not see another major expansion of any part of the network (outside of RER) for a couple of decades.

We can get upset about the subway expansion - and it only shows how backwards political planning of transit can be - but the political victory was won when Tory flip flopped.

 

[Leo_Chan]

there will be another round of debates and "studies" that will lead us back to square one.

Is that a pun?

 

[amnesiajune]

The political push has been from misinformation ("subways, subways, subways", streetcars are terrible, and poor Scarborough is getting screwed by the Downtowners). Its clear the decision to eliminate the transfer at Kennedy is only based on ideology and the political pressure that this is "the right thing to do". When the dust settles, there will be nice new subway running to STC to make Oxford and the subway or nothing people nice and happy while the majority of the residents will still spend the majority of their commute in traffic on a bus. There will be no increase in rapid transit service in Scarborough beyond eliminating a transfer and spending all this money now will essentially eliminate future work on transit expansion there. The money will be spent, people will claim a glorious victory and then you will not see another major expansion of any part of the network (outside of RER) for a couple of decades.

I agree with you on St. Clair but I disagree with a lot of this. The current choice is between a small tweak to what they currently have and a subway. Out of those two, people will want the subway. You can call it "misinformation" if you want, but that's not going to change anyone's mind on the current alternative LRT proposal. The only way to convince people that the LRT is a better option is to improve the proposal. With the current LRT proposal, people would still have to take a bus to Sheppard & Progress or Scarborough Centre, still have to make two or three transfers on their trip including one at Kennedy, and still get bogged down at Midland, McCowan and Milner Road that nobody will use. Those are the problems that need to address.

The difference between $2.5 billion and $3.5 billion is meaningless to the average voter. The difference between taking a bus from Malvern or Morningside Heights to an LRT stop and taking an LRT directly to Kennedy is very meaningful. City councillors need to realize that, especially the ones in parts of the city that already have excellent transit right now. The current LRT alternative is dead, and refusing to accept any of the current alternative's flaws (or even worse, believing that those flaws are features) isn't going to change that.

 

[steveintoronto]

*Where*? In an industrial corridor, like the present SRT line, sure, I detailed that, but correct me if I'm wrong, since you are very difficult to follow, you are suggesting elevated along the alignment most commonly proposed?

If the Midland route was selected, then the subway could be elevated next to the west side of Midland for about 2 km, from just south of Lawrence to just south of Ellesmere. There are no residential houses on that side, only commercial buildings.

But that's not what the City is proposing.