MisterF
Senior Member
Good point, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the rapid transit line that already goes to SCC. At least, nothing that can't be fixed relatively cheaply. The whole Scarborough subway project is the height of stupidity.
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asher__jo
Active Member
Not out of the realm that adding a station could cost more than $300 million.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
1. I'm not sure Ford actually gives a damn about subways. It might just be the case that he doesn't want LRTs in the way of his SUV.
2. If your speculation is correct, I'd consider the 3-stop SSE proposal DOA. The upload process is going to take several years. And then when that's done, TTC/Metrolinx/whomever will need to scrap nearly all of the planning work for the one-stop subway and start fresh, since there was no accommodations made in the present design for the three-stop option. The three stop option will then probably end up spending another 5 years in planning/design/tendering, just like the SSE did, before construction can begin. So we'd be looking at another 6 to 10 years from today before construction could even begin. And in that time I'm sure the costs would have skyrocketed. Meanwhile the RT is crumbling and needs to be decommissioned imminently. The timelines for this just don't work out.
nfitz
Superstar
Shouldn't cost quite that much if they don't have massive underground bus loops.
But still, if $4 billion for 1 station is good, then $4.3 billion for 2 stations is a bargain!
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
Just wait till the recession and that number will hopefully half.
nfitz
Superstar
Yeah ... like the house price collapse at the end of the housing bubble I was warned about when I bought a Toronto house 12 years ago ...
If construction costs fall in half, it's not called a recession! Even in the great depression at it's peak, prices were only down about 25%.
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syn
Senior Member
Yeah ... like the house price collapse at the end of the housing bubble I was warned about when I bought a Toronto house 12 years ago ...
If construction costs fall in half, it's not called a recession! Even in the great depression at it's peak, prices were only down about 25%.
So even assuming another Great Depression is coming, the Scarborough Subway will still be more expensive than originally estimated.
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Rainforest
Senior Member
And that's exactly why they can't drag their feet on SSE for much longer. If the "upload" process will spawn several years, that just means they will make the next move on SSE after the first announcement, not waiting for the whole process to be completed.
Ford and his government aren't exactly transit champions. They can play the claim-support/delay-funding game with Sheppard subway indefinitely. They can play same kind of game with Yonge North and the Relief Line for some time. The trick doesn't work with SSE though, because of the existing infrastructure nearing EOL.
I expect their next move on SSE within the next few months. Either they will present an updated plan, or they will accept the city's 1-stop plan (with a vague promise to add more stations in the future).
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
It was a hyperbole for the sake of humor.Yeah ... like the house price collapse at the end of the housing bubble I was warned about when I bought a Toronto house 12 years ago ...
If construction costs fall in half, it's not called a recession! Even in the great depression at it's peak, prices were only down about 25%.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
I disagree... just look what they did for Niagara.
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Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
If we accept that Ford is going to build the subway no matter what, and the province is paying for it, it should have a Lawrence East stop.
Given the development potential at Eglinton & Danforth, a stop there makes sense too. Hell, Sheppard and McCowan seems ripe for development too.
I don't live in Scarborough, and won't use the line. It would be a miserable commute compared to alternative options, and that is before the ghastly transfer at Bloor-Yonge. But f*** it, if the province is going to pay for it, I am down. Let's get as many stops as we can.
Look at it this way. The development that would come surrounding the stops, and the rise in property values in the adjacent neighbourhood = more property taxes for the city as a whole.
Given the development potential at Eglinton & Danforth, a stop there makes sense too. Hell, Sheppard and McCowan seems ripe for development too.
I don't live in Scarborough, and won't use the line. It would be a miserable commute compared to alternative options, and that is before the ghastly transfer at Bloor-Yonge. But f*** it, if the province is going to pay for it, I am down. Let's get as many stops as we can.
Look at it this way. The development that would come surrounding the stops, and the rise in property values in the adjacent neighbourhood = more property taxes for the city as a whole.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
Let's just hope the province doesn't take it out of the promised 5 billion dollars the Liberals promised last year. That money should go to the Relief Line.
But I do agree. Building it with many different stops would vastly simplify STC station and require far fewer bus bays. Instead of having 30 there and 20 at Kenney, you could have 10 at Kennedy, 5 at Eglinton/Brimley, 6 at Lawrence, 15 at the STC, and a further 15 at the new terminus at Sheppard. Not only would it prevent that awful transfer they're proposing at the STC but it would vastly help the route networking in all of Scarborough and speed up most people's commutes.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
You mean the Yonge North extension.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
That will unfortunately likely end up happening. However, we still have the federal 4 billion, so 2 billion to each project, 3 billion of the provincial money to the Relief line and 2 to YN, 1 billion from Toronto to YN and finally 2 billion to the relief line. Or something...
JSF-1
Active Member
While it would be nice, I find the idea of the Province assuming 2/3 of the cost and letting the City take its third and run quite farfetched. I have no doubt eveven after the upload the Province will expect Toronto to contribute some monetary sum to these projects.