[ShonTron]

Whether you reduce the sidewalk, that space is already being taken up by people waiting for the streetcar, thus not actually available for pedestrians to use.

That is a good point. One place that is really bad is the westbound stop for the 505 Dundas at University as it can be very congested as it's narrow between the building and the curb. Thankfully, the proposed 481 University redevelopment does address this.

Maybe they won't fit, I was talking about single islands not double islands like we see on Spadina, and I was thinking of putting them at intersections as opposed to mid-block sections, but ultimately there's only enough space in the ROW to be shared amongst, cars, transit and pedestrians, as well as cyclists.

The trouble is that the single islands won't fit wheelchairs and other wheeled devices when the ramps are deployed on the new streetcars. Even the wide Spadina and St. Clair ROW islands had to be rebuilt to accomodate them. Recently, some islands were simply removed as there was no room to expand them.

 

[BMO]

The trouble is that the single islands won't fit wheelchairs and other wheeled devices when the ramps are deployed on the new streetcars. Even the wide Spadina and St. Clair ROW islands had to be rebuilt to accomodate them. Recently, some islands were simply removed as there was no room to expand them.

Can't the islands be built to the Streetc specifications? The streetcars will be 100% low-floor, so in essence they would deploy the ramps for non-islands and just opent he doors for islands right? Or will this precedure be different?

 

[nfitz]

Narrowing the sidewalk in a few places seems like it might be worth it. When I use these island stops, I like the fact that I don't need to be worried about a car or bike zipping by while boarding the vehicle.

If you used those island stops with a toddler, you'd feel differently about them.

Even yesterday, I watched in amusement at one island stop, where about 15 people were waiting to get on, which meant those getting off at the rear door, had to stand waiting for the people to board, before they could go past, and walk to the road.

And there's nothing worse than missing the streetcar, because you couldn't get to the island, because traffic was going past.

Unless you have room for quite wide platforms, I prefer there be no islands.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

this is absolutely false. LRT is usually a grade B level of separation. A simple commuter lane would in effect adhere to that and given the right vehicles it would allow for sidewalk boarding. And LRT is just a mode of transportation not a method of implementation. You can have a Light rail transit line that is slow (like spadina) and you can also have a completely grade separated LRT line (Like LA). You could have a GO train running on a track downtown and that would be HRT, for heavy rail transit, regardless of its implementation.

Okay I lied.

LRT is very loosely defined. An underground "subway" can be LRT. So the 510 Spadina streetcar. Even a few of our downtown streetcar routes can sometimes be define as LRT.

However in the context of Toronto, when people mention LRT they generally are referring to:
- A line that is grade separated (either above or below grade)
-or if at grade in a protected lane (like the 510 Spadina)
-Doesn't run in mixed traffic for the length of the route
-Features signal priority
-Features "subway-like" stop spacing (~700m)
-Has vehicles that can be coupled into trains.

Nobody living in Toronto would ever call the 510 Spadina a light rail line. The distinction is reserved for transit lines with the aforementioned qualities such as Sheppard East, Finch West or Eglinton Crosstown.

 

[BMO]

Okay I lied.

LRT is very loosely defined. An underground "subway" can be LRT. So the 510 Spadina streetcar. Even a few of our downtown streetcar routes can sometimes be define as LRT.

However in the context of Toronto, when people mention LRT they generally are referring to:
- A line that is grade separated (either above or below grade)
-or if at grade, in a protected lane, like the 510 Spadina
-Doesn't run in mixed traffic for the length of the route
-Features signal priority
-Features "subway-like" stop spacing (~700m)
-Has vehicles that can be coupled into trains.

Nobody living in Toronto would ever call the 510 Spadina a light rail line. The distinction is reserved for transit lines with the aforementioned qualities such as Sheppard East, Finch West or Eglinton Crosstown.

Fair enough, I think when people start seeing the new Streetcars on Spadina, though, people will refer to it as an LRT line. I cannot believe how many people I meet that think the vehicles make the line an LRT!

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

You're right, I'm pretty sure that the TTC said they wouldn't build streetcar lines in mixed traffic. So far, they kept their words with the Cherry Streetcar lines

Which is a shame that they would filter out this type of transit as an option right from the get go. There are many streets in toronto that are too narrow for a dedicated LRT but would/could benefit from a mixed traffic streetcar route. Dufferin to me comes to mind as one example.

 

[BMO]

Which is a shame that they would filter out this type of transit as an option right from the get go. There are many streets in toronto that are too narrow for a dedicated LRT but would/could benefit from a mixed traffic streetcar route. Dufferin to me comes to mind as one example.

I suspect Bus technology is so much more reliable than it used to be, it's hard to justify the infrastructure costs of building rail, wiring, and vehicles for a mixed traffic route. The modern thinking is to just use buses till you can't then just bite the bullet and go segregated ROW.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I suspect Bus technology is so much more reliable than it used to be, it's hard to justify the infrastructure costs of building rail, wiring, and vehicles for a mixed traffic route. The modern thinking is to just use buses till you can't then just bite the bullet and go segregated ROW.

Yeah. The only way I see the TTC building a mixed traffic streetcar is if it will cost significantly less to operate and maintain.

 

[ehlow]

Yeah. The only way I see the TTC building a mixed traffic streetcar is if it will cost significantly less to operate and maintain.

It would cost less to operate on a route like Dufferin, because the new vehicles are way bigger, right?

 

[salsa]

Which is a shame that they would filter out this type of transit as an option right from the get go. There are many streets in toronto that are too narrow for a dedicated LRT but would/could benefit from a mixed traffic streetcar route. Dufferin to me comes to mind as one example.

It sucks that the spadina subway had to go along Allen road and not dufferin.

 

[JayBeeGooner]

It would cost less to operate on a route like Dufferin, because the new vehicles are way bigger, right?

That's what I was thinking.

Dufferin is a great candidate for a streetcar line in mixed traffic. I am probably one of the few who still believe modern streetcars can be more than novelty development tools.

 

[sixrings]

I to think the streetcar can be an effective form of transit even in mixed traffic. Dufferin and bathurst are the two routes I can think of other then extending the Dundas route past Bloor to Jane.

 

[Johnny Au]

That's what I was thinking.

Dufferin is a great candidate for a streetcar line in mixed traffic. I am probably one of the few who still believe modern streetcars can be more than novelty development tools.

They better be able to climb the steep hills, especially between Eglinton and Rogers, as well as at Davenport.

 

[MisterF]

If you used those island stops with a toddler, you'd feel differently about them.

Even yesterday, I watched in amusement at one island stop, where about 15 people were waiting to get on, which meant those getting off at the rear door, had to stand waiting for the people to board, before they could go past, and walk to the road.

And there's nothing worse than missing the streetcar, because you couldn't get to the island, because traffic was going past.

Unless you have room for quite wide platforms, I prefer there be no islands.

Well to be fair, the loading situation will be a lot better with the new streetcars, which have all door boarding. Should be much faster at stops.

 

[nfitz]

Well to be fair, the loading situation will be a lot better with the new streetcars, which have all door boarding. Should be much faster at stops.

Somewhat better ... though not sure what they'd do with the platform in question, which is surely not wide enough for a wheelchair to go down, even ignoring the ramp issues.