sixrings
Senior Member
Apparently that won't be a problem with the new lrvs.
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- Thread starter Brans89
- Start date
Apparently that won't be a problem with the new lrvs.
BMO
Senior Member
I am by no means familiar with the Dufferin route and what type of people use it. But Streetcars soon start losing their appeal the longer a line becomes. There are some realities with the technology that certainly makes it substantially less flexible at dealing with disruptions, which are only compounded and more impactful on longer lines. For these same reasons many lines are being split up. For short routes, Streetcars are a compelling choice, especially when it comes to capacity and maitnenance cost per person. Having said that, It is a technology that has it's place, and that is not long, or even medium distance trips, but local short range trips that require a higher capacity than conventional buses.
They also have less scientific advantages and purposes, such as for aesthetics and gentrification uses, but when it comes to a purely capcity and movement of persons scenario, the modern city just isn't a suitable place for streetcars to be going 10 or 15km in mixed traffic.
Now with the Dufferin St, one could make a case for a short route that just extends the existing track that already exists on Dufferin towards the Exhibition and connect to the Loop all the way to Bloor St Subway station and have it split to a Bus route north of Bloor. But I would be highly skeptical about the cost benefits of spending that money on this type of project especially considering the traffic impacts during construction, for what essentially almost replicates what buses can do without any construction impacts and can be changed and altered relatively quickly.
I think a shift towards more segregated rapid transit lines throughout the city and low capacity shorter local bus routes that shuttle people to them would hopefully replace the need to ever have to build high capacity local transit lines such as streetcars.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Ultimately there may be a TC underground route for Dufferin.
ehlow
Senior Member
That seems like a good candidate for a grade-separated transit line.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
It would have to be deep, elevated, and/or like the Bloor-Danforth line between Keele and Runnymede, given the number of steep hills between Eglinton and Rogers.
ehlow
Senior Member
As cool as it would be, it would be hard to imagine elevated, since the road is relatively narrow at 4 lanes, and the elevated structure would take up two lanes at least, right?
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Underground until at least Eglinton, then it can be in the middle of the road.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
There is a valley between Eglinton and Rogers that sinks quite deep. The underground line would have to be rather deep.
drum118
Superstar
The line would have to start to slope south of Rogers Rd and resurface north of Castlefield Ave to deal with the rolling hills between Roger Rd and Eglinton Ave. In fact the depth of the tunnel between St Clair Ave and Rogers Rd would have to be deeper than normal to deal with both grade issues south of St Clair Ave and between Roger Rd and Eglinton Ave.
The stations at St Clair, Roger Rd and Eglinton would be very deep than normal. The distance between the Eglinton Crosstown Station and the Dufferin line station would more than the the ones that we have today.
I would say off hand the the Dufferin line would be almost 200 feet below grade between St Clair and Eglinton.
You still have the hill north of Castlefield and maybe the line should surface south of Glencairn in place of Castlefield.
spider
Senior Member
All excellent reasons for not even considering it
Johnny Au
Senior Member
That would be much deeper than York Mills station, the deepest station in Toronto.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The Peter Witt streetcar and trailer were able to travel on the Avenue Road hill (before the tracks were removed and the roadway widened). The combined length of the streetcar and trailer are about the same length as one of the new streetcars.
The Bay streetcar ran from St. Clair and Lansdowne to Avenue Road, down Avenue Road to Davenport, then along Davenport to Bay Street and down.
The Bay streetcar ran from St. Clair and Lansdowne to Avenue Road, down Avenue Road to Davenport, then along Davenport to Bay Street and down.
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Rainforest
Senior Member
IMO, mixed-traffic streetcar for the whole length of Dufferin is a non-starter, due to the line management problems. Higher passenger-to-driver ratio may be good for the TTC's bottom line, but on the other hand, switching to vehicles that run less frequently and are less flexible will make the bunching / uneven headways problem even worse than now. Add to that the cost of building new tracks, and the whole exercise makes little sense.
Having said that, the idea of switching only the southern section to streetcars might actually make sense. One obstacle to that is the absence of space for the streetcar and bus loop at Bloor & Dufferin (unlike Bloor & Bathurst where ample space is available). Therefore, if the said transition is undertaken, then the southern streetcar and the northern bus route would probably have to overlap; for example, the streetcar going all the way up to St Clair, and the bus going down to College and looping there. Per my observation, Dufferin bus tends to be busiest between St Clair and College anyway, hence the said overlap might be acceptable from the passenger load perspective.
Having said that, the idea of switching only the southern section to streetcars might actually make sense. One obstacle to that is the absence of space for the streetcar and bus loop at Bloor & Dufferin (unlike Bloor & Bathurst where ample space is available). Therefore, if the said transition is undertaken, then the southern streetcar and the northern bus route would probably have to overlap; for example, the streetcar going all the way up to St Clair, and the bus going down to College and looping there. Per my observation, Dufferin bus tends to be busiest between St Clair and College anyway, hence the said overlap might be acceptable from the passenger load perspective.
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
Yes, and I can tell you why it's not going anywhere. It's stuck behind cars turning left, or delivery vans on the right, or stuck with a half dozen of its kin behind a disabled street car in front. That's why.
salsa
Senior Member
It's pathetic that a streetcar with a hundred people crammed in it has to wait for one car to make a left turn. Because transit priority it's a "war against cars"?