[Johnny Au]

IMO, mixed-traffic streetcar for the whole length of Dufferin is a non-starter, due to the line management problems. Higher passenger-to-driver ratio may be good for the TTC's bottom line, but on the other hand, switching to vehicles that run less frequently and are less flexible will make the bunching / uneven headways problem even worse than now. Add to that the cost of building new tracks, and the whole exercise makes little sense.

Having said that, the idea of switching only the southern section to streetcars might actually make sense. One obstacle to that is the absence of space for the streetcar and bus loop at Bloor & Dufferin (unlike Bloor & Bathurst where ample space is available). Therefore, if the said transition is undertaken, then the southern streetcar and the northern bus route would probably have to overlap; for example, the streetcar going all the way up to St Clair, and the bus going down to College and looping there. Per my observation, Dufferin bus tends to be busiest between St Clair and College anyway, hence the said overlap might be acceptable from the passenger load perspective.

The bus can loop within Dufferin Mall's parking lot, while the streetcar can loop around Corso Italia.

 

[BMO]

IMO, mixed-traffic streetcar for the whole length of Dufferin is a non-starter, due to the line management problems. Higher passenger-to-driver ratio may be good for the TTC's bottom line, but on the other hand, switching to vehicles that run less frequently and are less flexible will make the bunching / uneven headways problem even worse than now. Add to that the cost of building new tracks, and the whole exercise makes little sense.

Having said that, the idea of switching only the southern section to streetcars might actually make sense. One obstacle to that is the absence of space for the streetcar and bus loop at Bloor & Dufferin (unlike Bloor & Bathurst where ample space is available). Therefore, if the said transition is undertaken, then the southern streetcar and the northern bus route would probably have to overlap; for example, the streetcar going all the way up to St Clair, and the bus going down to College and looping there. Per my observation, Dufferin bus tends to be busiest between St Clair and College anyway, hence the said overlap might be acceptable from the passenger load perspective.

I say, if you have to go up to St. Clair it makes no sense. People don't want Streetcars and Buses using up the roadway. The optics of such a proposition would easily be shot down. One way they could end it at bloor and improve the bus transfer at Dufferin station so that hundreds of people aren't waiting on the sidewalk for the bus, is to have an underground streetcar/bus bay. But this would be almost impossible given the current political setting at City Hall.

 

[sixrings]

I say, if you have to go up to St. Clair it makes no sense. People don't want Streetcars and Buses using up the roadway. The optics of such a proposition would easily be shot down. One way they could end it at bloor and improve the bus transfer at Dufferin station so that hundreds of people aren't waiting on the sidewalk for the bus, is to have an underground streetcar/bus bay. But this would be almost impossible given the current political setting at City Hall.

Well I don't know how to fix the blog to Eglinton part but again from Eglinton to Wilson the bus is crazy busy. If it was up to me I'd have dufferin in mixed traffic from the ex to bloor. Then whenever it got to steep it would run in a tunnel to Eglinton. Finally from Eglinton to Wilson it would be in a ROW.

 

[Admiral Beez]

It's pathetic that a streetcar with a hundred people crammed in it has to wait for one car to make a left turn. Because transit priority it's a "war against cars"?

Best solution for that is to remove the "street" from streetcar with ROWs. Alternatively, run the streetcars off the roadspace entirely - for example, the semi-abandoned rail lines along Lakeshore at Leslie. Yes, people would need to walk south to catch it, but it would be an express option.

Where streetcars do mix with cars, there should be no left turns without a left turn lane, and no on-street parking unless there is a second lane for cars between the parked cars and the track.

 

[M II A II R II K]

If Dufferin isn't going to be considered worthwhile for it's own RT, then more rapid transit interceptors will have to do. There'll at least be a new one at Eglinton.

 

[Earlscourt_Lad]

If Dufferin isn't going to be considered worthwhile for it's own RT, then more rapid transit interceptors will have to do. There'll at least be a new one at Eglinton.

I agree that's likely the better option, improve certain East/West routes. North of St. Clair the Spadina line isn't far from Dufferin, so I think it would be really hard to justify the expenditure on creating a parallel RT 1/2 mile west. Especially when Jane or Keele could act as a westerly intercepting RT, and avoid some of the topographical issues.

The Lansdowne streetcar was converted to trolley in part because of the hill immediately north of Davenport, and I think the grade on Dufferin between Beaver & Davenport is similar if not a bit steeper. Good luck getting anything starting from a stop at the Davenport light.

 

[Johnny Au]

I agree that's likely the better option, improve certain East/West routes. North of St. Clair the Spadina line isn't far from Dufferin, so I think it would be really hard to justify the expenditure on creating a parallel RT 1/2 mile west. Especially when Jane or Keele could act as a westerly intercepting RT, and avoid some of the topographical issues.

The Lansdowne streetcar was converted to trolley in part because of the hill immediately north of Davenport, and I think the grade between Beaver & Davenport is similar if not a bit steeper. Good luck getting anything starting from a stop at the Davenport light.

There is actually a "steep hill" sign on Dufferin at Davenport.

 

[Earlscourt_Lad]

There is actually a "steep hill" sign on Dufferin at Davenport.

That hill and that light were my nemesis when I was learning to drive standard, many years ago.

 

[Johnny Au]

Even the 29 Dufferin bus kept rolling down the hill when it stops there.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Even the 29 Dufferin bus kept rolling down the hill when it stops there.

Some bus drivers put the parking brakes on, between moving their foot off the brake to the accelerator, prevent just that. Bet some heavy truck drivers do the same.

 

[Johnny Au]

Some bus drivers put the parking brakes on, between moving their foot off the brake to the accelerator, prevent just that. Bet some heavy truck drivers do the same.

Route 29 Dufferin must be the most difficult bus route in Toronto for bus drivers (busy, long, many steep slopes, and such).

 

[Palma]

This talk about Dufferin going part bus and part streetcar brings to mind the talk about the route and mode of transit for Scarborough and saving people a transfer and on Sheppard when people will need to transfer from LRT to subway and they will not like it - well why should people travelling on Dufferin have to face the same thing and transfer between 2 modes of transit? You can't use that reasoning for one route in the City and then not another. And the reasoning that streetcars loose their lustre for long distances, well the Queen streetcar is sure pretty packed. The fact that Dufferin is so close to the subway (Spadina) again shows how politicians even in the past in this city could not get anything right as the expense of buses would have been saved by pushing that subway along a north south major route and getting rid of the Dufferin bus.

 

[sixrings]

I swear the new streetcars can do the hill. I'm sure I read it from Steve Munro.

 

[salsa]

Route 29 Dufferin must be the most difficult bus route in Toronto for bus drivers (busy, long, many steep slopes, and such).

And also Dufferin is ugly as hell.

 

[calimehtar]

Unfortunately at least in the core it seems like there aren't opportunities to add traffic island stops, the streets are just too narrow. In most cases the sidewalk is already as narrow as it can possibly be. If the city is going to improve streetcar service it will have to be with restrictions on turning or parking, or by eliminating lanes of traffic.

And I also think that most useful expansions to the network, eg Dufferin or Bathurst, will have to be in mixed traffic. Dufferin and Bathurst don't really have alternate routes that automobiles could use.

All these are feasible and in keeping with the spirit of streetcar expansions in other cities.