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Optimal solution should be...


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    253
I don't understand, they keep worrying about congestion at Union Station but what about Bloor Station? I thought one of the purposes of building the DRL was to relief congestion on Bloor Station. Now they are thinking about what's going to happen in 2031? Wow, this is getting no where at all, just watch, it's going to take years to do the study and double the amount of years to get it build. Good luck Toronto...My guess is that nothing will be completed until 2050...
 
What about the west end? Terminating the line at Exhibition is very myopic.

The west end of downtown is both denser and in higher need of reliable transit.
 
Apparently Metrolinx has rejected studying the DRL as previously planned. They have decided that only Union station congestion is an important issue, and have come up with a plan to shift GO traffic to another station at Bathurst or Yonge, with a subway running from Exhibition Place to Woodbine Station via a winding route from Front up to Queen then to Bloor in the East.

Actually they did not reject DRL; they just selected DRL East (plus a western tail to Bathurst North and Exhibition) over the previous U-shaped DRL proposal.

Although serving a new GO terminus is a weird reason to build DRL, I'll take it if it gets DRL actually built.
 
What about the west end? Terminating the line at Exhibition is very myopic.

The west end of downtown is both denser and in higher need of reliable transit.

The eastern leg of DRL is needed sooner than the western leg, to relieve Yonge subway.

Exhibition is a reasonable interim terminus. At a later date, the line can be extended further west.
 
Actually they did not reject DRL; they just selected DRL East (plus a western tail to Bathurst North and Exhibition) over the previous U-shaped DRL proposal.

Although serving a new GO terminus is a weird reason to build DRL, I'll take it if it gets DRL actually built.

Again, Toronto chooses to be cheap and refuses to provide the transit a city of its size really needs. Right now, the transit is more for a city with 1 million people, not 2.6.
 
Again, Toronto chooses to be cheap and refuses to provide the transit a city of its size really needs. Right now, the transit is more for a city with 1 million people, not 2.6.

It is true that we are behind the curve on transit improvements, but I would not be too worried about that interim DRL terminus at Exhibition; the line can be extended further west at a later point.
 
Actually they did not reject DRL; they just selected DRL East (plus a western tail to Bathurst North and Exhibition) over the previous U-shaped DRL proposal.

Although serving a new GO terminus is a weird reason to build DRL, I'll take it if it gets DRL actually built.

The problem is that their alignment, hopefully preliminary, seems to be based solely on GO connections at the expense of serving local residents or possible extensions. Little is done to relieve the overburdened streetcar network (especially in the West End), and the Woodbine terminus seems too far east to intercept enough East End traffic on its way to Yonge (especially given that the Eglinton line will already funnel those furthest East away from the Bloor line altogether). I would hope that they'd, at the very least, reconsider where it will connect on Danforth and consider a small extension in the West at least to Dufferin.
 
I agree with kkgg7. I don't understand - we spend over 8B on the Eglinton line but we can't do just over 2B for a full DRL? The U-shape makes the most sense.

And enough with this rubbish of serving the commuters!!! They need to be served, but why not encourage downtown development so they don't have to travel that far in the first place?

Metrolinx has totally abandoned Yonge and Bloor, which TODAY needs relief, not in 20 YEARS. There should be both a new GO station AND a U-shaped DRL. Period.
 
I don't understand, they keep worrying about congestion at Union Station but what about Bloor Station? I thought one of the purposes of building the DRL was to relief congestion on Bloor Station. Now they are thinking about what's going to happen in 2031? Wow, this is getting no where at all, just watch, it's going to take years to do the study and double the amount of years to get it build. Good luck Toronto...My guess is that nothing will be completed until 2050...

GO's concern here was to get around their Union station problem, they do not care about congestion on the subway network.

It's best to run any new HRT with Bloor-type spacing along King Street and have interchanges at Sunnyside and Liberty Village, that way you could eliminate the King streetcar as well.
 
What about the west end? Terminating the line at Exhibition is very myopic.

The west end of downtown is both denser and in higher need of reliable transit.
Well Metrolinx is counting on GO can serving local commuters. As the article below says, they're working towards "growing integration between the TTC and Metrolinx, blurring the distinction between urban and suburban services". Basically there's no need for western extensions because the Georgetown line would be the DRL in the west end. Building another line on that same corridor would be wasteful duplication.

Apparently Metrolinx has rejected studying the DRL as previously planned. They have decided that only Union station congestion is an important issue, and have come up with a plan to shift GO traffic to another station at Bathurst or Yonge, with a subway running from Exhibition Place to Woodbine Station via a winding route from Front up to Queen then to Bloor in the East.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1091627

Here is an image of the map provided
http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/24/95/4755674645e6acfb393cd4c733d0.jpeg
Interesting from the TTC general manager in that article. As the article puts it, he supports GO building stations and fare structures in some areas of Toronto in such as way as to provide a reasonable local commuting alternative.

"At some point the downtown relief line may need to be built, but you don’t build it until you’ve exhausted all ways of moving people in Toronto, on TTC, on GO"

They're using some very weak wording in that first quote, like the TTC still wants to fight integration and only accept it in specific places where they absolutely have to. They also seem allergic to the DRL and want to delay it as long as humanly possible. I have no idea why. Sounds like they still want to operate their own little feifdom and their position is constantly going to be an obstacle to proper transit in Toronto. Hopefully Metrolinx will completely take over mass transit expansion and the TTC will be told to stick to operation.
 
Well Metrolinx is counting on GO can serving local commuters. As the article below says, they're working towards "growing integration between the TTC and Metrolinx, blurring the distinction between urban and suburban services". Basically there's no need for western extensions because the Georgetown line would be the DRL in the west end. Building another line on that same corridor would be wasteful duplication.


Interesting from the TTC general manager in that article. As the article puts it, he supports GO building stations and fare structures in some areas of Toronto in such as way as to provide a reasonable local commuting alternative.

"At some point the downtown relief line may need to be built, but you don’t build it until you’ve exhausted all ways of moving people in Toronto, on TTC, on GO"

They're using some very weak wording in that first quote, like the TTC still wants to fight integration and only accept it in specific places where they absolutely have to. They also seem allergic to the DRL and want to delay it as long as humanly possible. I have no idea why. Sounds like they still want to operate their own little feifdom and their position is constantly going to be an obstacle to proper transit in Toronto. Hopefully Metrolinx will completely take over mass transit expansion and the TTC will be told to stick to operation.

I think the point is that the main rail corridors (Lakeshore, Georgetown/Milton) are severely underused and with the Lakeshore tunnel option, there would be enough capacity to run subway-like service on all lines. The DLR would only be necessary when the capacity of the rail corridor is exhausted. Also possible transfer points to the subway exist at Dundas West (also Lansdowne) and Main Street, tunnels could be built at these locations. Given that cost pretty much means that the DLR and the GO train tunnel are mutually exclusive, I think that the GO tunnel is a much better option because it allows for both local and express services on Lakeshore and Georgetown. For example on Lakeshore local services could run Pickering-Oakville with infill stops at Queen Street East/De Grassi, Cherry St, Spadina, Roncesvalles, and Humber River, while express services skip all stops between Pickering and Union and between Union and Oakville. On Georgetown local services could stop at infill stops at Liberty Village, St. Clair, Eglinton and Woodbine Racetrack, while express trains would skip all stops until Brampton.
 
Well Metrolinx is counting on GO can serving local commuters. As the article below says, they're working towards "growing integration between the TTC and Metrolinx, blurring the distinction between urban and suburban services". Basically there's no need for western extensions because the Georgetown line would be the DRL in the west end. Building another line on that same corridor would be wasteful duplication.

It looks like this line is trying to do too many things with its priorities mixed up. It places an emphasis on relieving Union, solving a problem that doesn't yet exist with a solution that doesn't appear to be ideal. How many people, for example, will transfer from the GO coming in from the West to a subway line that takes them too far North and has downtown subway stop-spacing when they can just keep their seat and ride the one more stop to Union? It does very little to relieve Yonge. It presumes that local riders in the central city will opt for GO and that there will be plenty of GO-TTC transfers, yet its Eastern terminus is just one stop away from an existing GO station. It fails to take into account that the Eglnton line will already relieve the outtermost sections of the Danforth lines/SRT, and similarly fails to consider an eventual northward extension to relieve the Yonge-Eglinton mess that will ensue. It does absolutely nothing for the overburdened streetcar network, unless you happen to live on the right part of Queen. It looks like they didn't even check a streetcar map out while designing this. The connection to the 506 is too far East and too close to its terminus to do anything for the folks on that line. Its connection to the 504/508 in the West will do little for people heading to the core (taking them too far North too be of much use). The connection to the 501 in the West will do nothing to address the horrible service past Roncesvalles, and the 501 and 503 East of Woodbine seem to be abandoned altogether.

I fail to see how the DRL can relieve the GO network/Union while the GO network is simultaneously trying to relieve the rest of the TTC network. It would be best to design the DRL to first and foremost relieve the Yonge line with the surface network taken into account. If it can somehow serve as a way to get GO riders off of that system before they overwhelm Union, that would be great - and GO should build stations that connect with the DRL wherever possible. It should not work the other way around with the DRL going out of its way to connect to the GO network in hopes that this will address a problem that doesn't yet exist.

As long as relieving Union is a priority, local service in the core will suffer.
 
It looks like this line is trying to do too many things with its priorities mixed up. It places an emphasis on relieving Union, solving a problem that doesn't yet exist with a solution that doesn't appear to be ideal. How many people, for example, will transfer from the GO coming in from the West to a subway line that takes them too far North and has downtown subway stop-spacing when they can just keep their seat and ride the one more stop to Union?

Because Georgetown and Barrie trains would terminate at the new Bathurst station and not continue to Union.

PDF | Union Station 2031 and related planning studies
 
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If there's one thing that's remained consistent in Toronto Transit planning, it's the creation of ridiculous forced transfers.
 
A big problem here is that the Yonge Subway, Bloor-Yonge Station, Union Station, and the surface streetcar network all need to be 'relieved'. Obviously its a consequence of underinvestment in downtown transit relative to travel demand, and now we're forced to catch up quickly. Knowing that realistically we'll be lucky to get one tunnel dug in the next 30 years, they're trying to solve several problems at once, which is going to become a compromised design no matter what is chosen.
 

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