[thommyjo]

YEG is a natural financial capital, with the headquarters of 3 major financial institutions + 1 mega-scale institutional asset manager.

What is needed is leadership that recognizes this and plants the seeds for further growth.

Investment banking is Toronto and Calgary. Everywhere else is 2nd tier at best for finance. We are not a finance capital. This is just incorrect.

Also, what headquarters are here? ATB and CWB? Those aren't the same level as the big 5.

 

[thommyjo]

CWB at 14bil vs TD and RBC at 1.1 TRILLION is sort of a difference...

Lets not pretend we're something we aren't. Its not a leadership challenge for finance jobs. Its the reality and decades of decisions that aren't reversible. Edmonton is not a logical city for finance in canada. Never will be.

 

[CaptainBL]

CWB at 14bil vs TD and RBC at 1.1 TRILLION is sort of a difference...

Lets not pretend we're something we aren't. Its not a leadership challenge for finance jobs. Its the reality and decades of decisions that aren't reversible. Edmonton is not a logical city for finance in canada. Never will be.

I work in corporate investment banking for one of the big banks in Toronto, I can attest that factually Edmonton is flat out not even on the map in the financial world despite having CWB and ATB and AIMCo. Anything financial markets is and will always be in Calgary for Alberta. Although ATB is head quartered in Edmonton, they continue to expand more of their functions out of Calgary including equity research, capital markets, investment and corporate banking and more recently, new ventures and tech. And outside of the large financial institutions, private equity, risk management and hedging, trading companies, infrastructure funds, venture capital, insurance, capital markets communications, financial and management consultants, asset management, wealth management and more are all located in Calgary in the magnitude of billions and billions and billions more than Edmonton. I am an ardent and fierce proponent that Edmonton needs to attract more business to the city, but financial institutions is one that is so far lost it would be like trying to say we are a natural oil capital of Alberta...its just not even remotely close and will never be.

 

[occidentalcapital]

ATB, Servus, CWB, AIMCO, AltaML (fintech), Triple5, Peace Hills Trust, plus the public sector finance and add in a few smaller scale asset managers, and the excellent finance program at U of A... plus local operations of big 5; also BitcoinWell (fintech), FIRMA, Gen. Bank of Canada, and a few others.... A lot of cities would die to have that as a foundation.

Don't be your own worst enemy!!

 

[CaptainBL]

ATB, Servus, CWB, AIMCO, AltaML (fintech), Triple5, Peace Hills Trust, plus the public sector finance and add in a few smaller scale asset managers, and the excellent finance program at U of A... plus local operations of big 5; also BitcoinWell (fintech), FIRMA, and a few others.... A lot of cities would die to have that as a foundation.

Don't be your own worst enemy!!

I share your optimism, I truly do, but I'll counter that again by using a parallel example that we have oil services companies in Edmonton like Ensign, Schlumberger, Precise and have the incredible U of A engineering program. While thats a great foundation, it has never made us anymore of an oil capital than Calgary or even remotely close.

The Big 6 Canadian Banks have all receded from Edmonton right down to their logos on office towers (BMO, RBC, Scotia have all pulled them names on our towers, CIBC and National Bank never had logos, TD is left) and established corporate and capital market presence in Calgary. The bank I work for is further building its global infrastructure finance platform and its renewable energy finance platform in Calgary (not Toronto), coupled with two of the others banks that have consolidated global operations in Calgary (BMO shut their Houston energy office and consolidated global energy in Calgary, likewise TD). When we deal with Edmonton based companies such as Capital Power, we deal with their corporate development groups located in Boston and Calgary, because that's where the capital is. Never mind that the Alberta Stock exchange now known as the TSX Venture has always been in Calgary. And unless you and I know something different, there probably is a very valid corporate reason why ATB has shifted all its capital markets groups to Calgary (that's where the clients are that's where the capital is).

We do have our names like CWB, AIMCo and ATB (I'm not even going to entertain names like Triple5 as a financial player in Edmonton?), but we need to recognize that if we are trying to diversify and develop corporately my point is we are much better off focusing on other areas where we still do have a competitive advantage. The banking and capital roots in this province run very very deep and they are not in Edmonton.

I'd be happy if a financial institution decided Edmonton is the place to set up shop and I am happy to hear if you have any other experience or specific knowledge in this that I may not but its just a known starter at all for me. Let's use our resources optimally to pitch to companies where we do have an advantage in such as tech, IT, power and utilities, telecom, chemicals, healthcare, etc.

 

[occidentalcapital]

Finance is an industry like any other, and there is no automatic reason you should write off YEG. I disagree that the battle is won. YEG has lots going for it and needs some leadership to build upon what is already here. Major mistake to ignore that $150b+ in capital is managed out of YEG and what a terrible lost opportunity for the city to just throw up your hands and say that finance "runs deep" in Calgary therefore we will ignore the sector. Tell that to the builders and visionaries who have already built a finance ecosystem here locally.

 

[CaptainBL]

Finance is an industry like any other, and there is no automatic reason you should write off YEG. I disagree that the battle is won. YEG has lots going for it and needs some leadership to build upon what is already here. Major mistake to ignore that $150b+ in capital is managed out of YEG and what a terrible lost opportunity for the city to just throw up your hands and say that finance "runs deep" in Calgary therefore we will ignore the sector. Tell that to the builders and visionaries who have already built a finance ecosystem here locally.

Again, I don't disagree with you in principle but I will also try not to untangle your interpretation of optimism versus what is achievable. Perhaps you have more first hand knowledge of the banking world than I so I am genuinely curious and open to learn how you would suggest leaders here convince Goldman Sachs or RBC to move investment banking operations from Calgary to Edmonton? Or to convince BMO, which actively decided to not have a corporate banking presence in Edmonton, consolidate it's global energy operations in Edmonton? Or when a company from Nova Scotia goes public on the TSX Venture in Alberta to select Edmonton as its corporate head office rather than Calgary where the TSX-V is? Or TriWest's $1.25B in private equity committed capital to pack up and move to Edmonton?

Happy to hear your thoughts and approach on this.

 

[archited]

^^^^ and along with all of these expanding industries there will be a natural expansion of financial institutions. There is no question that New York City is one of the main financial hubs of the U.S. and the World. But, as L.A. and SoCal grew, that centric geo-stationary model for New York decentralized and now there are a significant number of "West-Coast" bank headquarters, some focused on the movie industry, some focused on the neo-auto industry, some focused on alternative energy. The same is entirely possible for Edmonton. Alberta, historically, has sold off its raw resources... but as it matures I can see banking stepping in to evolving things like a hydrogen hub, tourism, agriculture and forestry tertial industries and others that today aren't particularly evident. Western banks will become more commonplace and will evolve into a central supportive mode to the growth in other industries. It will happen -- and that is a good thing.

 

[roe_]

Edmonton is not a logical city for finance in canada. Never will be.

I am an ardent and fierce proponent that Edmonton needs to attract more business to the city, but financial institutions is one that is so far lost it would be like trying to say we are a natural oil capital of Alberta...its just not even remotely close and will never be.

If this is your opinion then why even discuss the problem? If Edmonton is so far behind other centres and will never catch up then why waste time worrying about something that can't be changed?

I am old enough now that I largely ignore empty-boosterism that says this is the greatest place in the world. But on the other hand, I also try not to indulge people who have been to Toronto and then triumphantly come back to Edmonton to tell us how backwards we all are.

Things are good here, but there they can certainly be better. I truly believe our best days lay ahead as a city and my hope is that a lot of bright and motivated people decide to be builders in Edmonton, whether that be at CWB, ATB or something else.

 

[CaptainBL]

If this is your opinion then why even discuss the problem? If Edmonton is so far behind other centres and will never catch up then why waste time worrying about something that can't be changed?

I am old enough now that I largely ignore empty-boosterism that says this is the greatest place in the world. But on the other hand, I also try not to indulge people who have been to Toronto and then triumphantly come back to Edmonton to tell us how backwards we all are.

Things are good here, but there they can certainly be better. I truly believe our best days lay ahead as a city and my hope is that a lot of bright and motivated people decide to be builders in Edmonton, whether that be at CWB, ATB or something else.

It is not even an opinion, like you, I am old enough and have worked in that industry long enough that it is speaking anecdotally from my first hand knowledge, relationship and experience working with the powers that make the decisions within many financial institutions as to where and why they choose to further establish presence not in Edmonton...especially when no one in Edmonton is actively advocating for it. Feel free to flip through previous posts in this thread and you will see that I strike a balance between boosting what I believe is achievable for my hometown (such as making serious strides in the world of tech given our strong ties to the tech industry) versus what has a very very low probability (somehow convincing billions and billions of established dollars that Edmonton should be a financial hub). Could RBC pick up their Calgary operations and move to Edmonton? I guess to be fair to your vision. But if we are striving for that, why not see if we can also be the Canadian launching pad for Bezos' next rocket to boost our space industry? Is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? No, for many many reasons.

I'm not going to keep trying to sell you on why it is farther than a longshot that Edmonton with CWB and ATB will be the next financial powerhouse but you seem to have more knowledge on this than I.

 

[Glenco]

@JNO1, if you have absolutely nothing at all to do today, scroll through previous posts MacLac has on this thread. He loves to peddle some theme in which he bashes "Call center IT jobs" (quotations are his in every post he has made about them) i.e. any tech job that the province is getting. Its almost like the theme is that these tech jobs are over taking his O&G jobs. His posts are usually a scroll past for me but today's he just couldn't help himself sound like the old senile grandma. No merit to his posts usually other than his O&G buddies not being able to find baggage handling jobs because of "Call center jobs" taking over.

I can remember back in the 70s when Lougheed was moving all the head offices south the sentiment among many people around here was “head offices smeck offices who needs them we have all the construction oil and gas jobs besides we should learn to share”. I don’t imagine the city or the wider community could have done anything to halt the outward migration but what a short sighted perspective.

 

[IanO]

Curious to see where this would be, but I would guess that Strathcona County might be a leading candidate.

Itochu's 'blue' ammonia from Canada to power Japan's green future

Large facility to produce 1m tons a year from natural gas

asia.nikkei.com

 

[JNO1]

^ It looks like this is the same plant announcement referred to by @MacLac in post 212 above (with link). So yes in Strathcona County.

 

[occidentalcapital]

Again, I don't disagree with you in principle but I will also try not to untangle your interpretation of optimism versus what is achievable. Perhaps you have more first hand knowledge of the banking world than I so I am genuinely curious and open to learn how you would suggest leaders here convince Goldman Sachs or RBC to move investment banking operations from Calgary to Edmonton? Or to convince BMO, which actively decided to not have a corporate banking presence in Edmonton, consolidate it's global energy operations in Edmonton? Or when a company from Nova Scotia goes public on the TSX Venture in Alberta to select Edmonton as its corporate head office rather than Calgary where the TSX-V is? Or TriWest's $1.25B in private equity committed capital to pack up and move to Edmonton?

Happy to hear your thoughts and approach on this.

It is pretty simple. Build on what we have. Keep attracting and growing employers in the institutional asset management world. Grow out local champions, and start getting in front of decision-makers.

Also, DeFi.

 

[occidentalcapital]

Business conditions in Calgary and Edmonton | The Owl

The latest numbers from Statistics Canada’s Real-Time Local Business Conditions Index* show that the situation in Calgary and Edmonton improved significantly in July

www.atb.com

ATB reports Edmonton business conditions index has hit 196; Calgary is at 176 - reflecting Edmonton's faster recovery in business conditions post-pandemic. Looking good!