What do you think of this project?

  • Total voters
    59
Glenco said:
Reminds me of WEM when it first opened which was a massive overbuild for the market with 4 MacDonalds and 2 Mr. Big and Tall The market grew into it and they don’t have that problem anymore.
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An interesting observation. As a customer, I really didn't mind the duplication. If one Bay was out of stock, a person could go to the one at the other end without going outside or driving, so at times it was very handy. However, I'm not sure it made great business sense for the stores.

However, I do agree the market will eventually adjust. I don't understand all the ins and outs of WEM strategy, but they seemed to keep the mall fairly full while transitioning to more variety and high end stores which was probably no easy task. At first you may have to take what you can get and later you can become more choosy.
 
thommyjo said:
popular fashion brands will do way more for our DT and city image than cannabis stores with covered windows…
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Popular fashion brands don’t want to be downtown. That’s the hard truth. Had nothing to do with ice district or cannabis stores. Cannabis stores would cut off their left arm if it meant they could have uncovered windows, but they can’t. Not because they don’t want to. Also, what’s so entertaining about upscale fashion brands? I agree, we want them downtown. How would they benefit an entertainment district though? And to say they benefit more than a cannabis store? In the context of entertainment? Your argument has legs but no feet. You have to also remember there are so many other cru’s that need to be filled up. I’d understand the outrage somewhat if this was the last one. It’s not though. The ones that are filled with banks should come first in getting removed before a cannabis store if it’s such an “entertainment” district.
 
IanO said:
Could you not use one of the many dispensaries in the near proximity and permit this to be something different?
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Considering it’s a flagship store I think the most likely thing to happen is it absorbs the market and takes control of the area in the nearest proximity. So the near ones probably would run out of business. Canna cabana and anything on Jasper will stay. As far as the ones nearby if I’m close to ice district id probably pick that one over the other ones. The one on 104 st will survive. You have to remember also in the winter smokers already have it tough. Having to walk even for 5 minutes is too much sometimes especially when factoring in the smoking part. Having one In the nearest proximity is ideal, not for everyone, but for a large population of people enough for it to make sense.
 
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The truth is ice District can’t afford to be only entertainment right now. It’s not like the downtown and whyte ave markets can’t support nightlife entertainment. It’s just there’s so much of it close by already that it’s not enough to pull in buyers at their price points. Most people buying in legends and and sky rise have money to spend. Most people who are enticed by those things are usually a lot younger. Most young people don’t have money. This is obviously speaking generally… They need to market convenience. Once phase 2 gets built all the fashion stores, dispensaries, liquor stores and rexall stores and banks we totally want in the plaza will probably eventually be relocated once the leases and construction ends and real entertainment options will move into the plaza. Especially considering the added density near by that phase 2 of station lands and ice district will bring.
 
God said:
The truth is ice District can’t afford to be only entertainment right now. It’s not like the downtown and whyte ave markets can’t support nightlife entertainment. It’s just there’s so much of it close by already that it’s not enough to pull in buyers at their price points. Most people buying in legends and and sky rise have money to spend. Most people who are enticed by those things are usually a lot younger. Most young people don’t have money. This is obviously speaking generally… They need to market convenience. Once phase 2 gets built all the fashion stores, dispensaries, liquor stores and rexall stores and banks we totally want in the plaza will probably eventually be relocated once the leases and construction ends and real entertainment options will move into the plaza. Especially considering the added density near by that phase 2 of station lands and ice district will bring.
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"leases ... end" is key.
 
God said:
Popular fashion brands don’t want to be downtown. That’s the hard truth. Had nothing to do with ice district or cannabis stores. Cannabis stores would cut off their left arm if it meant they could have uncovered windows, but they can’t. Not because they don’t want to. Also, what’s so entertaining about upscale fashion brands? I agree, we want them downtown. How would they benefit an entertainment district though? And to say they benefit more than a cannabis store? In the context of entertainment? Your argument has legs but no feet. You have to also remember there are so many other cru’s that need to be filled up. I’d understand the outrage somewhat if this was the last one. It’s not though. The ones that are filled with banks should come first in getting removed before a cannabis store if it’s such an “entertainment” district.
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When you go to other cities, what do you see on their identity shaping streets? Apple stores, lululemon, Nike, H&M, Canada goose, etc. I’m not even saying high end like Luis, Burberry, Rolex. But just major brands that carry clout with young people and make DT attractive to them.

And you can say it doesn’t feel like entertainment…but apple stores and nike get tons of foot traffic, window shoppers, etc.
 
thommyjo said:
When you go to other cities, what do you see on their identity shaping streets? Apple stores, lululemon, Nike, H&M, Canada goose, etc. I’m not even saying high end like Luis, Burberry, Rolex. But just major brands that carry clout with young people and make DT attractive to them.

And you can say it doesn’t feel like entertainment…but apple stores and nike get tons of foot traffic, window shoppers, etc.
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The reality is that our downtown is built for a city population of 2-3 million people - e.g. we have to fill up all the street-level retail, all the mall and elevated retail, and all the pedway retail, so 3x the amount of retail needed just to look "occupied". We have the infrastructure of a very large city (e.g. fully grade separated downtown subway (we call it "LRT") with separate track level, concourse level spaces. We have a bunch of mega developments with massive retail concourses (e.g. underneath the Telus and ATB buildings), ECC, Manulife Place, Commerce Place. We have not one, not two, but arguably 3 central retail streets that all need to be filled in order for the downtown to be vibrant (Jasper Ave, 104 st, and 124 st) now add to that the plaza and street-facing retail in Ice District.

Oh, and a lot of that 'independent' retail demand is already satisfied by Whyte Ave, which we don't think of as "downtown", but in most other comparable cities that kind of street would be considered downtown.

Essentially, there is a lot of mega-infrastructure in our downtown, a lot of space for retail. Luckily for us, our city population is back growing rapidly and we are well on the way to reaching 2 million. I think it is just a matter of time before the city starts to catch-up to what is built and you will see more retail activity in downtown.
 
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God said:
Popular fashion brands don’t want to be downtown. That’s the hard truth. Had nothing to do with ice district or cannabis stores. Cannabis stores would cut off their left arm if it meant they could have uncovered windows, but they can’t. Not because they don’t want to. Also, what’s so entertaining about upscale fashion brands? I agree, we want them downtown. How would they benefit an entertainment district though? And to say they benefit more than a cannabis store? In the context of entertainment? Your argument has legs but no feet. You have to also remember there are so many other cru’s that need to be filled up. I’d understand the outrage somewhat if this was the last one. It’s not though. The ones that are filled with banks should come first in getting removed before a cannabis store if it’s such an “entertainment” district.
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I think sooner or later, the people who live in those nice downtown condo's are going to tire of having to drive everywhere to get most things. Those stores that figure out there is a very unhappy, under served market to serve will do better, those that stick to their rigid suburban only approach (which they seem to apply only to Edmonton) will not do as well.

Not that the Bay is a popular fashion store, they are even more clueless. However, as an example since the downtown store has closed I haven't spent a single cent at the Bay, even though I used to and still have their credit card (which I can and have used in many other places since then). I don't know if they have figured out why I use their card often, but never at the Bay. If it is not convenient, it is their loss. Fortunately there are a few places that are more convenient, with as good or better prices.
 
thommyjo said:
When you go to other cities, what do you see on their identity shaping streets? Apple stores, lululemon, Nike, H&M, Canada goose, etc. I’m not even saying high end like Luis, Burberry, Rolex. But just major brands that carry clout with young people and make DT attractive to them.

And you can say it doesn’t feel like entertainment…but apple stores and nike get tons of foot traffic, window shoppers, etc.
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Ya nothing screams cosmopolitan like a $10.00 t-shirt from H&M and then going to Braven after and ordering fries because that’s all your H&M budget allows. Seriously though it’s better that the stores you mention go into the City Centre Mall renovation and leave the weed, booze, restaurants, bars, cafes and gambling in the Ice District. Can you imagine how busy that weed store would have been during the playoffs when the plaza was packed? I think it’s right where it belongs.
 
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archited said:
There's the image of that old wooden spoon again -- I believe you really are ageist -- you just can't help yourself. Re the broader scope of your comment -- you are entirely wrong.
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How is it ageist to suggest an entertainment district, which usually cater to young adults ages 18-35, should have clothing stores that are exciting to young people? Would you call all those brands ageist for primarily targeting young adults in their marketing and branding?

We have multiple universities downtown and any thriving DT appeals well to young people. Why do so few 20 year olds in our city care about our DT? Why do so few ever visit it? We haven’t designed it for them.

Not sure why you have a bone to pick with me. I’m not saying anything against older people, simply speaking as a younger adult about what I observe amongst my peers and what might be helpful.
 
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