[thommyjo]

Ya nothing screams cosmopolitan like a $10.00 t-shirt from H&M and then going to Braven after and ordering fries because that’s all your H&M budget allows. Seriously though it’s better that the stores you mention go into the City Centre Mall renovation and leave the weed, booze, restaurants, bars, cafes and gambling in the Ice District. Can you imagine how busy that weed store would have been during the playoffs when the plaza was packed? I think it’s right where it belongs.

I’m just saying what I’ve seen in Toronto, Vancouver and other cities. H&M isn’t my favourite store, but they like to put their stores in prominent districts. As does apple. See those types of stores in our DT I think would show our DTs image is improving. The lack of investment DT from global brands is sad. Like banks, then can often give some more stability alongside local and smaller stores.

 

[itom987]

You need more people living downtown first, then all the retail brands will start showing up.

When looking for a place to set up shop, those brands look to see how much foot traffic there is on the sidewalks.

 

[IanO]

Downtown Edmonton has the most pitiful retail offering of any major city in N.A... it is absolutely embarrassing and needs to be addressed, but won't be.

 

[northlands]

I think sooner or later, the people who live in those nice downtown condo's are going to tire of having to drive everywhere to get most things.

The only problem is when people have that issue mixed with the uptick in crime, general disorder, feelings of being unsafe, endless construction, etc. of downtown current, they choose to move away. I mean, if you're going to have to drive anyway, may as well live somewhere without those aforementioned issues. I love downtown living, but yesterday a gentleman sat on a public bench in the open outside our building, furiously sharpening a shiv for a solid 45 minutes. In broad daylight. Don't see much of that in the burbs.

I know this has been brought up before, but the argument about the lack of corporate headquarters in Edmonton seems to go pretty hand-in-hand with our retail offerings downtown. Per StatsCan, in 2019 we had 120 HQs in Edmonton for 5,500 employees--and how many of those are even in DT? One of the biggest private corporations HQed in Edmonton, PCL, isn't even close to downtown. What notable non-government related HQs do we have in DT? Stantec, CWB, BioWare, ???

For the same year 2019, Quebec City, a place with half our population, had nearly 7,500 people employed at HQs. Winnipeg at 7,300. Calgary in the depths of oil recession hell of 2019 still had a whopping 28,000 folks employed at HQs.

I don't know if there's any real correlation between downtown amenities and corporate HQs, but it's clearly been an on-going trend of Edmonton having crap corporate presence and the majority of our DT is government and small satellite offices (largely consisting of law/accounting/consulting/CRE services) and our downtown having, as Ian put it, pitiful retail offerings. Seems to me like it's hard to build great retail offerings when there's the lack of big HQ money earners. I previously worked for a medium sized Calgary based corporation with HQs in their downtown. Just the money expensed for business lunches/client entertainment at the local downtown restaurants/retailers was incredible. You certainly don't see much of that here in downtown Edmonton.

Obviously not the sole problem or anything but it's a pretty big missing piece.

 

[archited]

How is it ageist to suggest an entertainment district, which usually cater to young adults ages 18-35, should have clothing stores that are exciting to young people? Would you call all those brands ageist for primarily targeting young adults in their marketing and branding?

We have multiple universities downtown and any thriving DT appeals well to young people. Why do so few 20 year olds in our city care about our DT? Why do so few ever visit it? We haven’t designed it for them.

Not sure why you have a bone to pick with me. I’m not saying anything against older people, simply speaking as a younger adult about what I observe amongst my peers and what might be helpful.

First and foremost "Entertainment Districts do not "usually" cater to young adults 18-35, nor does the retail associated with said districts. The target market for RETAIL generally is for people with substantial disposable income which certainly excludes a lot of people on the marginal income spectrum, especially those tied to high rents and/or lofty mortgages. There are some brands that target youth; equally there are brands that target other age groups. Your arguments are all anecdotal -- you and your friends/peers, as you constantly quote. It is for that reason that I included the post on Canada's top 100 retailers (I trust you read it). "any thriving DT appeals well to young people" -- like young people are the only group that matters to downtown -- tell that to any major City in Florida, largely catering to retirees from northern states.
I don't have a bone to pick with you -- I don't even know you. I do like to call out biases and prejudices when I see them however. Now you are working on substantiating two of them -- ageism and educational elitism.

As far as National Brands are concerned -- they are almost an anathema to sustained and sustainable retail districts. In Santa Monica a one-time very successful retail area known as the "3rd Street Promenade" grew from a local retail base. As its popularity increased and as the rents and demand for space increased, soon only the conglomerate retail entities could afford the rental rates. As the more colloquial stores were displaced with your favorite shopping brands the Promenade fell out of favor -- one could find all of these stores at any mall anywhere in North America. People began to quit the 3rd Street Promenade experience and instead went to two new areas nearby -- Main Street Santa Monica and Abbot Kinney Blvd. -- both of which made a concerted effort to discourage National Chain Stores. Same in San Francisco -- Fisherman's Wharf and Ghirardelli Square were both ruined by the presence of National Chains. In Ojai, California, and Santa Barbara both Cities have undertaken bylaw forms to restrict the influx of National chains. In Edmonton -- Old Strathcona was revived by local merchants with street-presence ideas -- Hopefully the chains do not destroy this area. If Edmonton wants downtown to prosper and grow it should adopt strategies to encourage local entrepreneurship. It certainly doesn't help when the ICE District leases out major retail space to Banks. And it should not blindly look at catering to one age group!

One of the favorite games that Designers and Architects play at Retail Symposiums is showing slides of the interior of Malls in major cities across North America. From the interior mall pictures the players are to guess which City the particular Mall is located in. It is a very difficult guessing game.

And 'O your nihilistic comments re Edmonton are not at all helpful -- grow up!

 

[_urbanite]

Sunday afternoon on a warm day and... nothing. Taste of Edmonton is certainly the main draw right now, but unfortunately this district is pretty much like this 98% of the time. Also, there was a man about to shoot up some drugs about 5 feet to the right of me when taking the last picture. Right out in the open, without a care in the world. Just another day in downtown Edmonton. And we dream of having big brand retail stores here... lol

Edit*
When things are opened maybe it will be different, but I have my doubts. Loblaws will only do so much. I worry about Canadian Icehouse's and The Banquet's chances for success. They will be very dependent on the game night crowds for sure

 

[archited]

^^^^ Patience is a virgin!

 

[EdmTrekker]

Lots of vinyl on the windows ... which looks tacky. I hope they introduce fixed signage on the building or on well designed pylons which can be installed in front of these various bars and retail.

 

[Gronk!]

How many people were at Wayne's World last night?

 

[God]

When you go to other cities, what do you see on their identity shaping streets? Apple stores, lululemon, Nike, H&M, Canada goose, etc. I’m not even saying high end like Luis, Burberry, Rolex. But just major brands that carry clout with young people and make DT attractive to them.

And you can say it doesn’t feel like entertainment…but apple stores and nike get tons of foot traffic, window shoppers, etc.

Okay I’ll try this again. Retail fashion brands are needed in downtown and we should try out best to get them downtown. They should be in main streets like Jasper Ave, 104st, or 124st. They might also be in ice district phase 2. It would make sense and maybe also stationlands which would also work. In ice district plaza tho? An “entertainment” square? What entertainment does a clothes store opened from 9 am to 9 pm on weekdays and 9 am to 5pm on weekends bring to the plaza? Is it the shitty Taylor swift music they play in the speakers that brings entertainment? Those stores belong in ECC or Phase 2 ice and station lands. Probably even the old casino spot on 104 Ave. Drugs bring entertainment. I don’t care how you view things or not but that’s largely what drugs are famously used for. Entertainment. A few restaurants open in the day is also good to have to keep that 18 hours a day foot traffic. In order to have foot traffic 18 hours a day you also need nightlife in the area. That’s what we should be attracting. Some bars and pubs, maybe one club. That way you have the ice house, some bowling alleys, ping pong tables, bars, restaurants and casino games all in one area. I’m not going to hit up an H&M and then spend my next few hours at the casino. I tell you what tho I sure as hell will start the night off with a joint, head on in to the ice house and grab some food and vodka, go next door and play some bowling and then end the night with some roulette. That’s what I call an entertainment district. Shopping at a simons and then going to Scotia bank is not entertainment.

 

[thommyjo]

First and foremost "Entertainment Districts do not "usually" cater to young adults 18-35, nor does the retail associated with said districts. The target market for RETAIL generally is for people with substantial disposable income which certainly excludes a lot of people on the marginal income spectrum, especially those tied to high rents and/or lofty mortgages. There are some brands that target youth; equally there are brands that target other age groups. Your arguments are all anecdotal -- you and your friends/peers, as you constantly quote. It is for that reason that I included the post on Canada's top 100 retailers (I trust you read it). "any thriving DT appeals well to young people" -- like young people are the only group that matters to downtown -- tell that to any major City in Florida, largely catering to retirees from northern states.
I don't have a bone to pick with you -- I don't even know you. I do like to call out biases and prejudices when I see them however. Now you are working on substantiating two of them -- ageism and educational elitism.

As far as National Brands are concerned -- they are almost an anathema to sustained and sustainable retail districts. In Santa Monica a one-time very successful retail area known as the "3rd Street Promenade" grew from a local retail base. As its popularity increased and as the rents and demand for space increased, soon only the conglomerate retail entities could afford the rental rates. As the more colloquial stores were displaced with your favorite shopping brands the Promenade fell out of favor -- one could find all of these stores at any mall anywhere in North America. People began to quit the 3rd Street Promenade experience and instead went to two new areas nearby -- Main Street Santa Monica and Abbot Kinney Blvd. -- both of which made a concerted effort to discourage National Chain Stores. Same in San Francisco -- Fisherman's Wharf and Ghirardelli Square were both ruined by the presence of National Chains. In Ojai, California, and Santa Barbara both Cities have undertaken bylaw forms to restrict the influx of National chains. In Edmonton -- Old Strathcona was revived by local merchants with street-presence ideas -- Hopefully the chains do not destroy this area. If Edmonton wants downtown to prosper and grow it should adopt strategies to encourage local entrepreneurship. It certainly doesn't help when the ICE District leases out major retail space to Banks. And it should not blindly look at catering to one age group!

One of the favorite games that Designers and Architects play at Retail Symposiums is showing slides of the interior of Malls in major cities across North America. From the interior mall pictures the players are to guess which City the particular Mall is located in. It is a very difficult guessing game.

And 'O your nihilistic comments re Edmonton are not at all helpful -- grow up!

Your link that highlighted Costco, Walmart, hope depot, home hardware, etc wasn’t too helpful when talking about retail and entertainment for DTs specifically.

Call what you want anecdotal. I’m not claiming to be sharing stats and reports/studies. But it’s not hard to look at cities throughout our country and other similar nations and see what sort of stores exist in their DTs and especially around their entertainment districts.

What stores are on Bloor?
H&M, HOlt renfrew, aritzia, cineplex, Sephora, harry Rosen, home sense/winners, Nordstrom.

What about Robeson and Granville?
Urban outfitters, adidas, Nike, old navy, Nordstrom, peloton, Victoria’s Secret, roots, Arc’teryx, lulu lemon, lush, Tiffany’s.

These streets attract serious foot traffic. All I was suggesting is that some retail targeted at young adults would do well to bring university students into the ice district more. A cannibas shop is fine, but there’s a dozen others DT they can go to and that’s not a destination like a big retailer could be.

And diversity in stores I think could be helpful. Loblaws does offer that. But too much stuff for only 6pm and onwards like bars vs some midday shopping as well could be good. As mr God did say though, maybe this isn’t the ideal spot. Jasper, city centre, etc might be better. It just seems like those areas have flopped and the ice district would be one of the only places a big retailer might open a store DT right now. Lots of other spots smaller retailers and local options would explore though.

 

[David A]

How is it ageist to suggest an entertainment district, which usually cater to young adults ages 18-35, should have clothing stores that are exciting to young people? Would you call all those brands ageist for primarily targeting young adults in their marketing and branding?

We have multiple universities downtown and any thriving DT appeals well to young people. Why do so few 20 year olds in our city care about our DT? Why do so few ever visit it? We haven’t designed it for them.

Not sure why you have a bone to pick with me. I’m not saying anything against older people, simply speaking as a younger adult about what I observe amongst my peers and what might be helpful.

First of all, I have shopped at H&M and am well over 35. It would probably be more helpful to discuss popular stores without putting age limiting criteria into the conversation. When you get to a certain age you will realize why that offends some.

Also, the truth is a lot of companies market a youthful image, but actually sell to a more diverse group. For instance, all those cosmetics and perfumes with young models - that is not representative of their actual customers. In any event, I sort of agree with the other part of what you say, I think H&M downtown would be a good idea - for City Centre. However for whatever reason the national chains seem to overlook downtown Edmonton. Sadly, I don't think many of them know anything more about our city than it has a big mall, which sucks up a lot of the retail. I would suggest you contact H&M or some similar store and give them your feedback, that may be more productive than complaining there are no popular stores downtown.

 

[David A]

Downtown Edmonton has the most pitiful retail offering of any major city in N.A... it is absolutely embarrassing and needs to be addressed, but won't be.

It is and it is not because there are not "enough" people living downtown. There are so many frustrated people living downtown and nearby, some with good incomes who are forced to drive to the g*d d*mn nearby suburban malls, because there are hardly any stores nearby. Its not because they love driving everywhere. I wish some of those popular brands with their heads apparently shoved up their butts in Toronto would realize this and open a store or two downtown.

 

[David A]

Your link that highlighted Costco, Walmart, hope depot, home hardware, etc wasn’t too helpful when talking about retail and entertainment for DTs specifically.

Call what you want anecdotal. I’m not claiming to be sharing stats and reports/studies. But it’s not hard to look at cities throughout our country and other similar nations and see what sort of stores exist in their DTs and especially around their entertainment districts.

What stores are on Bloor?
H&M, HOlt renfrew, aritzia, cineplex, Sephora, harry Rosen, home sense/winners, Nordstrom.

What about Robeson and Granville?
Urban outfitters, adidas, Nike, old navy, Nordstrom, peloton, Victoria’s Secret, roots, Arc’teryx, lulu lemon, lush, Tiffany’s.

These streets attract serious foot traffic. All I was suggesting is that some retail targeted at young adults would do well to bring university students into the ice district more. A cannibas shop is fine, but there’s a dozen others DT they can go to and that’s not a destination like a big retailer could be.

And diversity in stores I think could be helpful. Loblaws does offer that. But too much stuff for only 6pm and onwards like bars vs some midday shopping as well could be good. As mr God did say though, maybe this isn’t the ideal spot. Jasper, city centre, etc might be better. It just seems like those areas have flopped and the ice district would be one of the only places a big retailer might open a store DT right now. Lots of other spots smaller retailers and local options would explore though.

First - some thoughts on Toronto Bloor Street. Lets see, I think a Cineplex was discussed for Ice District, but lest we forget , we do have theaters in City Centre. Interestingly, there was at one time a Harry Rosen in City Centre and more recently Holts downtown. Of course, there still is Winners in City Centre and for as Nordstrom, I think it is the most over priced over rated store around. Toronto is around 5 times larger than Edmonton, so maybe not the most realistic comparison.

I spent a lot of time around Granville Street, last time I went to Vancouver. What I love about Granville street is it still has some of the original variety and character, although it is being eroded away by some of those generic chains. Sadly Robson street has become a big outdoor mall - it is really just the outdoor version of West Ed. I suspect the locals are not so keen on it, though the tourist sure flock there, which might be much of the foot traffic.

I think the entertainment part of this area will do ok eventually. I don't know if it needs chain retail stores, but a few might help things a bit. We do need more retail stores downtown in general though.

 

[cmd uw]

The main reason why we don't have some of the more notable 'chain' retailers in our downtown is NOT because of WEM, but Kingsway. That popular mall with its ample parking that's less then 5km's away from the downtown core is by far and away one of the biggest reasons why City Centre struggles and we don't seem to have storefront presence from some of these retailers. Our downtown population needs to increase exponentially before we see these types of retailers given the proximity of Kingsway.