David A
Senior Member
Now that City Centre is no longer owned by the same twits that own Kingsway, the situation may improve.
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Greenspace
Senior Member
^La Salle is trying hard, but the pandemic and safety issues have made it even harder to redevelop. Loblaws opening is a huge deal, an anchor of sorts, hopefully will provide some momentum.
IanO
Superstar
| Reference ID: | Job No 441499759-002 |
| Description: | To install (2) Fascia On-Premises Sign(s) (THE CANADIAN ICE HOUSE) |
| Location: | 10324 - 103 STREET NW Plan 1722545 Blk 2 Lot 7 10324 - 103 STREET NW Plan 1722545 Blk 2 Lot 10 |
| Applicant: | FIVE STAR PERMITS |
| Status: | Intake Review |
| Create Date: | 7/22/2022 11:29:34 AM |
| Neighbourhood: | DOWNTOWN |
Gronk!
Senior Member
From the Taste of Edmonton last night
Our downtown also doesn't really offer a catalyst and converge area like other cities do. 104 Street and 109 Street are probably the best examples downtown of where that exists to an extent by offering a selection of restaurants and bars that are open later. As someone else pointed out, Robson and Granville have national chains now, but also offer the Commodore Ballroom, Vogue Theatre, Roxy Cabaret, the Orpheum, a few dozen other nightclubs and bars, not to mention nearby UBC - all of which have been there for years through many cycles of different retailers. Pacific Centre has been there for years as well, but was hot garbage for a long time relative to the street level stores.
Not to say that Edmonton doesn't have these entertainment venues, but they are scattered downtown and elsewhere in the City (Winspear, Union, Starlite, Aviary, Station on Jasper, Blues on Whyte, Jubilee). Whyte Ave for years has been the go to place for night life of various types with nearby residential as well - before the pandemic, national retailers thrived on Whyte Ave. Regardless, supporting venues consistently bring people downtown after hours that support the businesses to stay open later when the office workers leave. Edmonton hasn't historically done that well downtown.
Rogers Place is great for hockey, but shows aren't occurring every day of the week there - not enough to provide a catalyst for the entire area. Perhaps if the Pandemic hadn't happened, we may have seen Cineplex, Sporting Life and the Food Court, but I still don't think that would be enough to make it bustling like other Entertainment Districts are in other cities.
A lot of this happens over a long period of time and is organic to an extent. To me, 104 Street is one of the best opportunities downtown for that right now. We're seeing cocktail bars open, more restaurants over time, music venues etc. Killing the proposed sports bar didn't help in that regard though. Sure, might have brought some people you don't want around all the time, but it also would have brought more diverse traffic there and perhaps other types of night life would have noticed and opened. 109 Street is the other area, which is on the fringe of DT.
Why would you open a store in downtown Edmonton when no one goes downtown outside of normal working hours? Even those that go downtown during the day aren't flocking to your store, they are working most of the day. West Ed does well for shopping, but also for other attractions that bring people outside of normal hours. Parking is a bonus on top of everything for sure, but people would still pack Rogers Place for the Oilers, concerts, etc, even if there was minimal parking nearby.
The problem with Ice District is that it isn't really organic, it is managed by a corporation that has its own goals. That said, the surrounding area will continue to evolve over time.
KreationYEG
Active Member
Looks like their gonna take down everyone’s favourite banner.
TAS
Senior Member
Lots of good points, but UBC is not really a factor at all as it's not near their downtown district or Robson/granville.
As was noted previously, the close proximity of Edmonton's post secondary institutions to downtown is a strength we need to continue to take advantage of.
TAS
Senior Member
Off topic to go into detail, but one bus gets you to and from UBC to downtown, namely Granville. Pretty common and popular to hit up that area for nightlife.
Just as Whyte Ave is one bus or walk away from the university. Easy access!
According to this, UBC is a 40 minute bus ride (two hour walk) to Granville street at Davie. A huge portion of Edmonton is accessible to our downtown by bus in 40 minutes.
When listing the assets of their downtown, I just wouldn't consider 'nearby' UBC as one of them. But all good.
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IanO
Superstar
I use that bus when I visit pops out at UBC to head Downtown and it is exceptionally convenient, cheap and direct.
Most folks are not going to party on Granville though, most are headed back from work or off to the beach.
Most folks are not going to party on Granville though, most are headed back from work or off to the beach.
David A
Senior Member
First of all, the "no one goes downtown" statement ignores those people who live downtown or nearby. I am sure those people who live in nearby Encore (and people in various other new and existing buildings in the area) would prefer a short walk to stores, rather than having to drive almost everywhere and be treated as "no ones". The addition of Loblaws and other venues here will also start to help bring people to the area and I suspect some other stores will eventually notice, hey there are actually people here and some additional things will open too. I would not predict the future based on a very unusual and difficult last few years. I think that would be very short sighted. Ice District will eventually do well. It is not just hockey, but concerts and other large events, which were also curtailed due to COVID, but are resuming and eventually will happen fairly regularly again.
Of course, COVID sure didn't help things , but for whatever reasons Cineplex, was already not going ahead. Yes, it actually would have been a good fit for the Entertainment District, but it also may have been to some extent a duplication of the existing nearby theaters and movie theaters are not exactly a thing of the future, more of the past. I am not sure both would have survived. On a related note, I admire how Vancouver has preserved and in some cases reused a number of older theater venues on Granville street and agree it has added both the the character and liveliness of the area. Its unfortunate Edmonton has torn most of them down. At one time there probably a dozen downtown. I think that was also somewhat short sighted.
When I go through City Centre (which is often), I actually do see people in the few remaining stores there, so yes people who work downtown do actually go to them. Of course, not a lot remaining to go to, so that might be the bigger problem right now. However as more people return to working in the office, it has been noticeably busier in the area and that probably means some more customers for these stores.
Of course, COVID sure didn't help things , but for whatever reasons Cineplex, was already not going ahead. Yes, it actually would have been a good fit for the Entertainment District, but it also may have been to some extent a duplication of the existing nearby theaters and movie theaters are not exactly a thing of the future, more of the past. I am not sure both would have survived. On a related note, I admire how Vancouver has preserved and in some cases reused a number of older theater venues on Granville street and agree it has added both the the character and liveliness of the area. Its unfortunate Edmonton has torn most of them down. At one time there probably a dozen downtown. I think that was also somewhat short sighted.
When I go through City Centre (which is often), I actually do see people in the few remaining stores there, so yes people who work downtown do actually go to them. Of course, not a lot remaining to go to, so that might be the bigger problem right now. However as more people return to working in the office, it has been noticeably busier in the area and that probably means some more customers for these stores.
I should have worded it better in that regard. I didn't mean it as an asset to their downtown, but an additional driver of people to do things in the downtown area similar to students here and their interactions on Whyte. Yeah, it isn't a short trip, but the SkyTrain from Burnaby and Surrey isn't super quick either, yet many people still go downtown to those event spaces to converge. I think people are fairly used to the longer trip times there. At least my friends and I were when I still lived there and transit was usually pretty busy even on trips that went further out to the proverbial burbs.
Primary point was the catalyst area though, one of which Edmonton doesn't really have other than Whyte historically. Ask people what they think of from other places about Edmonton's nightlife and that is what people usually say, or West Ed, unfortunately. Haha.
Greenspace
Senior Member
Fun fact - After ECC was renovated in 2004/5 it had the second highest sales per square foot next to WEM. At the time Heritage Mall has just closed and The Bay was still transitioning to Southgate, both Southgate and Kingsway had not expanded or renovated. WEM had the same stores as Downtown and had just started to attract unique international retailers.
David A
Senior Member
Thanks, that is very good to know. I observed how the mall was managed over the last decade or so and I have the strong feeling the previous owners of the mall drove it into the ground through a combination of neglect and bad decisions. It wasn't that there was no potential here. I believe they drove way a lot of good tenants away through a combination of indifference and arrogance and it began to spiral after that.
