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occidentalcapital said:
If CUN is lowest yielding route, then why keep it around, when they've cut a bunch of core routes out of YYC? Very simply, all the evidence points to AC doing quite well on their few routes out of YEG.

More broadly, I think we are all tired of hearing about YYC this or that. If every post you make on the YEG Airport forum just references Calgary Airport, then please just leave.
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You must be aware of the astronomically high cost of flying domestically in Canada, that's why YEG-YYZ and YEG-YUL on AC are higher yielding than CUN. It doesn't mean that YEG-CUN should be cut or is unprofitable. Alberta-Mexico is a huge market, as evidenced by the fact that AC can run a YEG-CUN flight with pretty much nothing feeding into it. I think your interpretation of "lower yielding" is that it's an insult... but it's literally every leisure route operated by any full service carrier.

Secondly, no "core routes" have been cut from YYC, it's all feeder routes on Jazz. YYC is really just a spoke for AC, so the core routes are the same as they are for you out of Edmonton - YYZ, YVR, YUL, all of which remain as do EWR, LAX, LHR, and FRA and flights to almost all UA hubs (not just SFO and DEN) by way of codeshare.
EdmTrekker said:
So what routes has WS been flying from YYC to Europe excluding London? And given YVR is the # 1 source of passengers what is #2? Seems AC and AT could step up in YVR with additional flights? I thought CDG, DUB have been seasonal only, And Rome and BCN also seasonal, I forgot when these routes started.
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YYC-BCN has not yet operated, it starts next year. Yes correct, CDG, DUB and FCO all have YVR as #1 fairly consistently but #2 varies based on the day and the flight. YEG is often near the top, but YYJ is surprisingly high, FCO has had a day when YLW was #1, always lots of bodies from YQR and YXE, etc... no real surprises. An interesting (or perhaps obvious) thing is that you can see the impact of KL's nonstop YEG-AMS, because on the days it doesn't fly, there are more YEG originators on WS' Europe flights from YYC. YVR-LGW is being cut next year, so YVR originators will climb on YYC-LHR and YYC-LGW next year but of course many will (and should) instead choose nonstop options from YVR to London.

I'm very curious to see how many originate in YEG for YYC-NRT. It will easily be #1. There are other routes that have YEG consistently as the #1 originator, like YYC-BNA for example.
 
Sorry, you seem to still fail to comprehend...

1. Air Canada (Jazz) has shortage of pilots, inability to operate as many flights as planned.
2. Air Canada (Jazz) has to make flight reductions.
3. Air Canada chooses to CUT Jazz routes out of Calgary. Air Canada maintains existing Jazz routes out of Edmonton. Air Canada could have chosen to redeploy MAINLINE capacity to cover some of the cut JAZZ routes (e.g. YEG-CUN) but CHOSE not to do so.


Honestly, people here don't want to read ongoing posts that always manage to include content about Calgary. This is just not the place for that type of content. Thank you.
 
occidentalcapital said:
Air Canada could have chosen to redeploy MAINLINE capacity to cover some of the cut JAZZ routes (e.g. YEG-CUN) but CHOSE not to do so.
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This is actually a really interesting argument that I don't think I've ever heard, mostly because it doesn't really make sense. I'm sure they chose not to do so for the same reason that, in recent times, they didn't operate a plethora of mainline equipment between YEG and YQR/YXE/YZF/YQU/YMM. 3,500 nm airplanes like the MAX 8 aren't built for that... they're built for YEG-LIR. YEG being down to only one Jazz Q destination is a product of the same scenario you're describing, there's just no fat left to trim at YEG so the single route remains.

AC not re-deploying the YEG-YZF plane to YYC for regional flying makes far more sense as an argument for your claim that YEG is more important, because that's the only plane that'd operate the regional routes anyway. I'm not even being sarcastic here - your angle on AC's YEG operation is actually really interesting because most YEG passengers say, "AC has abandoned YEG and doesn't care about us, we have moved on to other carriers and new entrants"... and that's an objectively correct and fair position based on what AC has slashed in YEG over the last decade. I know this to be EdmTrekker's position, for example and I entirely agree. You on the other hand have a completely different take, that AC has codified the YEG operation as high yielding by flying in nearly zero high-yielding planes, carrying hardly any cargo, and serving only 3 mainline destinations year-round.

I was only casually reading this thread before, but now I'm fully invested.
 
I'm not sure how hard this is to understand. Yes, Air Canada has cut many flights from YEG. Yes, that means that the flights that remain are pumping out the $$$ for Air Canada. Capacity constraint has a way of doing that. Star Alliance or hard core Air Canada travellers are funneled to the remaining flights. All the growth will go elsewhere, but for a time, the few flights that remain will be more profitable solely on the basis of capacity discipline.

The Max8 is a highly versatile aircraft and Air Canada is running a mainline configuration Max8 on YEG-CUN. It is not limited to operating long haul like Liberia. Air Canada operates numerous Max8s on YEG-YVR, for example. For an airline in a highly defensive (retreating) posture in Alberta to continue to use a Max8 on that flight, and not somewhere else, it does speak to their profitability on CUN.

Air Canada will put the plane that fits the demand on a particular route. They have no issue flipping between mainline and jazz.
 
occidentalcapital said:
I'm not sure how hard this is to understand. Yes, Air Canada has cut many flights from YEG. Yes, that means that the flights that remain are pumping out the $$$ for Air Canada. Capacity constraint has a way of doing that. Star Alliance or hard core Air Canada travellers are funneled to the remaining flights. All the growth will go elsewhere, but for a time, the few flights that remain will be more profitable solely on the basis of capacity discipline.
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That's actually a very interesting idea and sounds reasonable, thankfully I work at an airport and can disprove it by looking at Air Canada's load factors at YEG which are either flat or down for the duration of their drawdown. In reality, AC has ceded ground at YEG to others by virtue of decimating their own ASMs.

So really your theory is that because there are less flights, AC pax are paying into higher fare buckets on a given flight... which doesn't really make sense given that the loads are flat unless AC fares skyrocketed out of YEG, which they haven't.

You do have a very elegant way of speaking which makes it sound like you know what you're talking about, which is kinda scary.
 
calgaryplanes said:
That's actually a very interesting idea and sounds reasonable, thankfully I work at an airport and can disprove it by looking at Air Canada's load factors at YEG which are either flat or down for the duration of their drawdown. In reality, AC has ceded ground at YEG to others by virtue of decimating their own ASMs.

So really your theory is that because there are less flights, AC pax are paying into higher fare buckets on a given flight... which doesn't really make sense given that the loads are flat unless AC fares skyrocketed out of YEG, which they haven't.

You do have a very elegant way of speaking which makes it sound like you know what you're talking about, which is kinda scary.
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Well, what can I say, folks? We must be starting to really rattle our friends down south. I mean, I don't think I have ever seen this user post in this thread before - but today we have numerous posts from two new Calgary users, one of which has now resorted to attempting to personally discredit me based on my manner of speaking (?)(!), and based on supposed "insider" information (from Calgary)...

...all in an apparent effort to argue that even after all the massive cuts at YYC, with YEG remaining unscathed, somehow YEG is weaker. Good for entertainment value, I suppose.
 
"Weaker" doesn't mean anything, so I'm not using that word... But what exactly is your metric for comparing the two stations and saying YEG is stronger?

Total number of flights?
Revenue?
Average fare?
Cargo uplift?
Destinations?

Calgary could lose every Jazz flight they have and still leads in all of these categories, so I'm genuinely confused as to what metric could be left to use to rank YEG ahead of YYC. All 5 of these metrics are public data.

If the reasoning for saying YEG is a bigger and stronger station for AC is the fact that YYC has been cut down to 7 Jazz routes while YEG is at 3, then I completely understand your reasoning and have no further argument.

I think you're saying that by cutting down YEG to serve only hubs with no transatlantic or transborder mainline service, AC has strengthened the station by streamlining it? I have to think, though, that most Edmontonians would disagree with you and preferred the strength of AC's operation at YEG when they served LHR and transborder destinations. Through this discourse one might even say you're doing a disservice to YEG with your reasoning; AC has abandoned YEG and left y'all for the wolves, but you are placing the now miniscule operation on a pedestal by virtue of a 7% ASM cut at a much larger station.
 
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When Air Canada makes massive cuts to Calgary, it's a sign that the market is weak for Air Canada. Probably because WestJet has been pumping a lot of capacity in to Calgary. That's the main point.
 
occidentalcapital said:
When Air Canada makes massive cuts to Calgary, it's a sign that the market is weak for Air Canada. Probably because WestJet has been pumping a lot of capacity in to Calgary. That's the main point.
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I think it's important to reiterate that the cuts represent about 7% of Air Canada ASMs (available seat miles) from Calgary. The cuts also got lost among the pressers of the weak market of Calgary gaining nonstop service to Spain, Italy and Scotland on the same day... while YEG gets nothing but to rejoice in a 7% ASM cut at Calgary.

I do wonder if a 7% ASM reduction by any carrier at YEG, of which there have been many, are similarly described by you as massive cuts indicative of a weak market.

AC has slashed YEG ASMs by nearly 50%.
 
EdmTrekker said:
So what routes has WS been flying from YYC to Europe excluding London? And given YVR is the # 1 source of passengers what is #2? Seems AC and AT could step up in YVR with additional flights? I thought CDG, DUB have been seasonal only, And Rome and BCN also seasonal, I forgot when these routes started.
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They might be able to force people to go through Calgary to fly to Europe from places on the prairies that have no other option, but I suspect Vancouver has other better options and they will figure that out sooner or later. This seems like a hare brained strategy in the long run.
 
Still pleased to see Air Canada slightly increasing YEG service in most recent update and starting dedicated widebody service. Something must be going right for them in our market.
 
occidentalcapital said:
Still pleased to see Air Canada slightly increasing YEG service in most recent update and starting dedicated widebody service. Something must be going right for them in our market.
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As we heard from calgaryplanes:

"YYC-BCN has not yet operated, it starts next year. Yes correct, CDG, DUB and FCO all have YVR as #1 fairly consistently but #2 varies based on the day and the flight. YEG is often near the top, but YYJ is surprisingly high, FCO has had a day when YLW was #1, always lots of bodies from YQR and YXE, etc... no real surprises. An interesting (or perhaps obvious) thing is that you can see the impact of KL's nonstop YEG-AMS, because on the days it doesn't fly, there are more YEG originators on WS' Europe flights from YYC. YVR-LGW is being cut next year, so YVR originators will climb on YYC-LHR and YYC-LGW next year but of course many will (and should) instead choose nonstop options from YVR to London. I'm very curious to see how many originate in YEG for YYC-NRT. It will easily be #1. There are other routes that have YEG consistently as the #1 originator, like YYC-BNA for example."

The what is going on is AC is strengthening its YVR in particular, YYZ, YUL hubs and reducing and cancelling flights to/from YYC from some large secondary cities like Victoria, Regina, Saskatoon as I mentioned 2 pages up. Folks in Saskatchewan and BC that want to fly AC (Aeroplan) will need to connect in AC YVR or YYZ to fly to LHR or FRA . Which means AC current service out of YYC to LHR and FRA is being weakened by cutting feed for these routes ... maybe setting the stage to withdraw the service at YYC. The only feed left from YEG is the 4 daily AC Jazz flights from YEG to YYC on props - if you can stand the noise. Now if you want to connect through YYC to get to FRA, AC has raised the prices to fly from YYC. It's faster and MUCH less expensive to fly through YYZ or YVR to connect to FRA as you can see here: https://www.aircanada.com/us/en/aco/home/app.html#/faredriven which was to depart YEG for FRA on 04 January and return 20 January.

I would not be surprised to see AC remove the 4 daily flights - and it would be a good thing for Edmonton. AC will protect its 3 main hubs and offer attractive pricing and I have no problem connecting in YVR or YYZ. Those that want to pay premium prices can fly or drive to Calgary to get the Westjet flights.
 
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