[EdmTrekker]

Who recalls that short-lived Asia-YEG-US flight rumour from about 5yrs ago now? Does anyone know if there were any legs to that one? A friend of mine who is a pilot (now wide-body/long haul) stopped by for coffee today en route to skiville and said that he had heard that it was going to be HK-YEG-JFK.

I recall that being one of the rumoured or perhaps more aptly described as a 'hope and a prayer' routes us forum folks were drooling over, but cannot remember for the life of me if this was actually something being considered or how far it got.

Was this pure speculation and fantastical desire or legitimately a possibility?

Assuming cargo played an important role on that if it was going to happen?

777 or A340-?

Anyone?

And of course this outreach could be done again. if EIA and the City Tourism cared. https://flyeia.com/corporate/media/news/new-japanese-charters-edmonton-winter/

 

[Vanfan123]

Not sure why WS expects Vancouverites and Torontonians to back track to YYC to hop on a plane to Europe? Are they insane to expect that? I’m no where near an airline analyst but even this layman can predict this as a colossal failure. Wonder what their Global YYC Hub back up plan is? Gee whiz, let me guess, put their 787’s back to where their demand is at……

Well (if) the price is right, for WestJet US/International routes out of Calgary YYC, there’s people from Vancouver YVR & Toronto YYZ that are willing to connect to Europe/Asia via YYC on the WS Boeing 787 or 737.

Just like a lot of people from Edmonton YEG connect in Vancouver YVR, Toronto YYZ or Montreal YUL or YYC.
It depends what works best for each passenger.

For me usually fly from YEG & connect in either YVR, YYC or YYZ .

 

[IanO]

That delta is rarely going to be enough for any sane person to add 4-5hrs to fly YYZ-YYC-CDG.

 

[EdmTrekker]

That delta is rarely going to be enough for any sane person to add 4-5hrs to fly YYZ-YYC-CDG.

And importantly - if a flight is significantly delayed or cancelled by WS at YYC on their Dreamliners there is no backup flight to those European destinations for 2-3 days. AC of course through YVR or YUL can deal with that kind of issue MUCH more timely and with less hassle.

 

[Mykie]

Funny though, how Edmonton maintains San Francisco service on Air Canada while it is cut from Calgary.

United flies YYC-SFO though (with twice as many seats as YEG-SFO), and they and AC operate a transborder joint venture in which revenue is shared.

I believe Edmonton also has more capacity to Montreal on Air Canada than Calgary.

Both YEG-YUL and YYC-YUL will be 4x daily. YEG's 4 flights are all A220, YYC has 2x A220, 1x 789, and 1x 7M8. So still more YYC seats + a J cabin. The gap has closed however, and it's great to see AC exploit YEG-YUL which has been underserved for a while.

I suspect Air Canada is seeing stronger yields out of Edmonton than Calgary.

I'm not entirely sure this is true, as the high-yielding front cabins of the widebodies operate daily on YYC-YYZ (and YUL in the summer) but seldom on YEG-YYZ? AC also has previously split an LHR slot between Calgary and Edmonton, I'm sure they'd be doing that right now if YEG was significantly higher yielding.

AC has been significantly drawing down Calgary and they already have one foot out the door, don't get me wrong... but all signs still point to YYC generating more revenue for them as a station overall.

 

[occidentalcapital]

A330 flying YEG-LIS tonight - anyone know what this is about?

Follow Flight HFM474P from Edmonton, AB to Lisbon on AirNav RadarBox

Real-time flight tracking with one of the best and most accurate ADS-B coverage worldwide. Check airport arrivals and departures status and aircraft history.

www.radarbox.com

 

[occidentalcapital]

United flies YYC-SFO though (with twice as many seats as YEG-SFO), and they and AC operate a transborder joint venture in which revenue is shared.


Both YEG-YUL and YYC-YUL will be 4x daily. YEG's 4 flights are all A220, YYC has 2x A220, 1x 789, and 1x 7M8. So still more YYC seats + a J cabin. The gap has closed however, and it's great to see AC exploit YEG-YUL which has been underserved for a while.


I'm not entirely sure this is true, as the high-yielding front cabins of the widebodies operate daily on YYC-YYZ (and YUL in the summer) but seldom on YEG-YYZ? AC also has previously split an LHR slot between Calgary and Edmonton, I'm sure they'd be doing that right now if YEG was significantly higher yielding.

AC has been significantly drawing down Calgary and they already have one foot out the door, don't get me wrong... but all signs still point to YYC generating more revenue for them as a station overall.

Air Canada would have no hesitation cutting YEG-SFO if there was even a hint of weakness in the flight. Anything left from YEG generates oodles of money for AC - and United for that matter - fares on the YEG-DEN nonstop are brutally expensive....like $650-$950 for cheapest economy seat 2-3 months out.

Thank you for clarifying the YUL capacity. I agree 4x daily from both YEG and YYC is notable.

Air Canada could have cut SFO, CUN, YZF from Edmonton, so the fact they did not, and chose instead to cut regional and US flying from YYC, speaks to where yields are at in the two markets.

 

[Mykie]

Air Canada could have cut SFO, CUN, YZF from Edmonton, so the fact they did not, and chose instead to cut regional and US flying from YYC, speaks to where yields are at in the two markets.

A leisure route like CUN is without question the lowest yielding route AC operates out of Edmonton though, so it's interesting that you'd include it in argument for YEG being higher yielding.

The highest yielding routes are on widebodies due to their premium cabins and revenue generated by cargo. For now, YYC still has the LHR and FRA flights which print money, and multiple daily widebodies full of cargo between YYC and YYZ. Since YYC has more AC flights overall I guess the way to compare it would be the amount of money AC generates on a YYC departure vs a YEG departure on average, and that metric would still go to YYC just by virtue of the significantly higher number of widebodies. Those daily European 787s probably generate as much as all the Q400's they cut... combined.

Once they inevitably drop FRA and LHR we can revisit this, but for now there's no question it's still Calgary. The point also remains that the routes being dropped from YYC are not being added to YEG, which they would do if it was so much higher yielding, no? There's absolutely an argument to be made that if AC served YEG as properly they do YYC, that it would be higher yielding based on income in the cities or whatever other external factors you want to introduce - but as it currently stands, I'm not sure I fully understand your argument.

We already know that Calgary and Edmonton would yield similarly in an equal world where WS and AC were unbiased and served each equally, but the argument you are presenting to prove this is flawed.

 

[Mykie]

A330 flying YEG-LIS tonight - anyone know what this is about?

Follow Flight HFM474P from Edmonton, AB to Lisbon on AirNav RadarBox

Real-time flight tracking with one of the best and most accurate ADS-B coverage worldwide. Check airport arrivals and departures status and aircraft history.

www.radarbox.com

All year from various Canadian cities these Hi Fly charters returning to LIS have been repositioning after refugee charters; that's most likely what this one is also.

 

[David A]

Yeah, getting to/from Quebec City has always involved at least 1 connection. 1 connection isn't bad, but it's still more annoying for many, considering the city is well-known as a tourist destination and not that far. Within Quebec, Dorval/Trudeau has essentially been the airport for the province. Most tourists to Quebec City are either already close enough to drive, bus, or train (Ontario, rest of Quebec, Maritimes, New England) or further away that they're probably planning a larger trip that involves Montreal anyway. That, and Quebec City is far more insular than Montreal, which is the city that Quebec uses to interface with the wider world. Quebec City lacks the level of business and personal connections to other parts of Canada, which means most travel is either from within Quebec for those reasons or are tourists. This cuts significantly the amount of travel to the city and the amount of destinations you need. I guarantee you in any given year there's more Haligonians who've moved to Edmonton than Quebecois de Quebec, despite the latter having double the population of the former. If people have any personal or business connections with Quebec in Alberta, it's usually with Montreal, which has a higher Anglo population, more institutions to draw Anglophones (McGill in particular), and larger businesses that have operations outside of La Belle Province. It's not uncommon to find someone who is going on a business trip to Montreal, but I've only come across the same for Quebec City a couple times.

Regardless, this Quebec City flight is awesome. I really appreciate that Flair is thinking outside the box and delivering destinations you wouldn't expect for YEG. The Nashville one is another. Despite there being an obvious demographic here interested in what Nashville offers, I doubt we'd have ever seen such a flight from Westjet or Air Canada.

It seems to be their strategy, connect various mid size places and avoid the bigger hubs. I have flown to Montreal several times, always direct and once to Quebec City with a stop in Montreal. If you are going on to Quebec City often I expect it could be a bother, particularly if you have to change planes and wait in the Montreal airport for a while. So, perhaps there is a market for it. It might matter more for people who are not ending their trip in Quebec City but going there from further north or east, which might involve yet another connection. However, I agree there would probably be more business/family travel to Halifax and Quebec City would be more tourism.

 

[David A]

Agreed, and let's be realistic that neither Air Canada or WestJet would fly the route from Edmonton. So it would be an indian carrier, and yes they have overflight rights for Russia.

Looking at the map, it doesn't seem to spend too much time over Russia, but yes that could be an issue for some people especially these days.

 

[David A]

But the full picture is that this was only made possible by WestJet ending basically all overseas flying from Toronto and Vancouver, and cancelling orders for any future widebody aircraft (i.e. this is about it for international flying, no growth planned from here). This is not the picture of a healthy airline. WestJet's fascination with Calgary has actually resulted in Air Canada ending majority of regional and US business flying out of Calgary- it is really doubtful whether WestJet is able to sustain their existing network at current fare levels. Air Canada clearly decided it was unsustainable. I think the launch of these routes is further evidence of WestJet being run like a Calgary vanity project, and not as an actual business-minded concern. In their current format, Westjet may not be long for this world...

Thanks for the perspective, unfortunately some people here still buy into the Calgary invincibility messaging and they don't quite get it. In reality Canada has one national air line, a large regional airline based in Calgary and a number of other smaller airlines popping up focusing on various other places. I could see WestJet eventually going the way of Canadian Airlines. They aren't nationally focused any more and also facing increased competition from smaller airlines. They could be badly squeezed.

There are also changes at Onex that make me wonder if what they originally planned for WestJet may fall by the wayside or maybe already has. The old hub and spoke model is starting to crumble a bit, in part due to the smaller airlines avoiding or focusing less on some of the hubs. Air Canada may be happy to leave Calgary to WestJet, it it means they can dominate other and bigger markets.

 

[Mykie]

Not sure why WS expects Vancouverites and Torontonians to back track to YYC to hop on a plane to Europe?

YVR is currently the #1 source of originating pax to Europe for WestJet from Calgary for all destinations except LHR/LGW... they probably expect it because it's already happening, and I'm sure it's just a brain fart on your end but needless to say YVR-YYC-Europe is not backtracking.

As for YYZ, you'll have to direct me to the press release where they state that they expect YYC to be a gateway for Torontonians to get to Europe. Even an airline as silly as WestJet probably did not say this, but if they've explicitly stated it, I missed it.

 

[EdmTrekker]

YVR is currently the #1 source of originating pax to Europe for WestJet from Calgary for all destinations except LHR/LGW... they probably expect it because it's already happening, and I'm sure it's just a brain fart on your end but needless to say YVR-YYC-Europe is not backtracking.

As for YYZ, you'll have to direct me to the press release where they state that they expect YYC to be a gateway for Torontonians to get to Europe. Even an airline as silly as WestJet probably did not say this, but if they've explicitly stated it, I missed it.

So what routes has WS been flying from YYC to Europe excluding London? And given YVR is the # 1 source of passengers what is #2? Seems AC and AT could step up in YVR with additional flights? I thought CDG, DUB have been seasonal only, And Rome and BCN also seasonal, I forgot when these routes started.

 

[occidentalcapital]

If CUN is lowest yielding route, then why keep it around, when they've cut a bunch of core routes out of YYC? Very simply, all the evidence points to AC doing quite well on their few routes out of YEG.

More broadly, I think we are all tired of hearing about YYC this or that. If every post you make on the YEG Airport forum just references Calgary Airport, then please just leave.