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It's actually hilarious that Winnipeg is somehow more expensive rent wise than Edmonton, with Regina not far behind.

A big part of the solution for Canadian cities is to adopt Edmonton's zoning laws, but I don't think anyone's going to do that until we reach 2 million based on other cities looking down on us tbh
 
Kosy123 said:
It's actually hilarious that Winnipeg is somehow more expensive rent wise than Edmonton, with Regina not far behind.

A big part of the solution for Canadian cities is to adopt Edmonton's zoning laws, but I don't think anyone's going to do that until we reach 2 million based on other cities looking down on us tbh
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It's also worth noting that property taxes in Regina went up by 15% this year.
 
IanO said:
Again, there is a fine line between 'affordable' and 'cheap' and without higher rents, infill projects can stall and/or not pencil.

The reality is that 5-10% rent growth would not be a bad thing for this city in that regard and would trigger a number of new projects in key core areas.
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The notion that a more heated speculative market amounts to better quality of housing was somewhat disproven by the MURB program, and the "cheap first good second" mentality. Further to that, it's unlikely that new developments could ever undercut existing properties on pricing.

There was a bit on Taproot this morning about infill developers struggling to rent out units with no included parking, and the omission of parking was absolutely a cost-saving measure. I read that and thought "well yeah, no shit." IMO two of the most glaring shortcomings of modern infill are:

1. A focus on building many DUs cheaply, instead of building what people want to live in.
2. CMHC failing to incentivize market housing, instead directing speculative investment to purpose-built rentals.

Good infill projects should not be materially affected by low rents, because if a developer is building residences that people want to live in, they can charge a premium. It's a fundamental "missing the mark" that's happening across Canada.

Just my opinion though.
 
^ Well said @policyenthusiast -- maybe it is the best trend that could hit Edmonton -- quite forcefully. If the poorly conceived housing, infill or apartment types (no matter), start to become rejected by the renting/buying public (voting with their feet so to speak) then it becomes a statement that would register with developers -- greed ends up on the back-burner. I still think that design standards applied to all forms of housing is sorely needed -- I remember discussing this very subject some years ago with Doug Cardinal and he used to say that his biggest argument with new clients was trying to prove to them that good design is actually every bit as cost-effective as poor design, especially if well considered OpEx was aligned with CapEx. The sad part remains... these ill-conceived abominations that are currently being constructed are visible on the street in the short term. Governments are looking to use several different but aligned programs to affect and effect housing costs -- some of the ideas that are surfacing are quite good.
 
policyenthusiast said:
The notion that a more heated speculative market amounts to better quality of housing was somewhat disproven by the MURB program, and the "cheap first good second" mentality. Further to that, it's unlikely that new developments could ever undercut existing properties on pricing.

There was a bit on Taproot this morning about infill developers struggling to rent out units with no included parking, and the omission of parking was absolutely a cost-saving measure. I read that and thought "well yeah, no shit." IMO two of the most glaring shortcomings of modern infill are:

1. A focus on building many DUs cheaply, instead of building what people want to live in.
2. CMHC failing to incentivize market housing, instead directing speculative investment to purpose-built rentals.

Good infill projects should not be materially affected by low rents, because if a developer is building residences that people want to live in, they can charge a premium. It's a fundamental "missing the mark" that's happening across Canada.

Just my opinion though.
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In a city like Edmonton, there are times rental vacancy is tighter and also times when it is not. Those that build less desirable accommodation can make more money in the short term if the market it tight, but when it changes and it will, they will be the first to be hit by higher vacancy and the hardest hit. Given that rental accommodation is built to last for decades that type of short term thinking probably will not turn out so well in the long run.
 
Oilers99 said:
Having rents lower than Winnipeg and near Regina is not a good thing. Affordability is not the only thing the city should be stressing.

Thanks.
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A good thing? Yes and no. Edmonton has been growing more quickly than Winnipeg for a long time. So for this and other reasons it is more attractive to build here.

This also helps keep supply growing here, which helps keep it affordable. However, I agree affordability is not the only thing that should be stressed.
 
Could it be that rents are higher in Winnipeg and Regina due to a lack of supply? As someone that grew up near Regina, the majority of housing built was single family. If no rentals are being built, higher prices will just happen. I remember 20 yrs ago when I started Uni in Saskatoon, and the vacancy rate was near 0% and my rent was nearly doubled in a year (granted it was still under 1K for a 2 bedroom). Guess what I am trying to get at with my rambling is that Edmonton might just be building a lot more rentals than these smaller cities which may explain why the rents in Edmonton are lower.
 
Oilers99 said:
if developers don't make money on projects, projects stop fast.
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It can, definitely. But the profitability for developers aren't just decided by rental prices, considerations are also made for the development charges (Ontario DCCs average almost 10x higher than Edmontons), land acquisition costs, availability of labour and approval processes. Edmonton is extremely competitive on all of these fronts.

If a home in Edmonton costs 100k to build and the rent yields 100$ per month, and a home in Ontario costs 500k to build and the yield is $500 per month, the cost recovery time is the same. Using actual 2025 numbers, here's that principle in action:

  • Edmonton:
    • Build cost: $515,000
    • Rent: $1,450/month
    • Recovery time: ~355 months ≈ 29.6 years
  • Regina:
    • Build cost: $450,000
    • Rent: $1,370/month
    • Recovery time: ~328 months ≈ 27.4 years
  • Toronto:
    • Build cost: $1,000,000
    • Rent: $2,500/month
    • Recovery time: ~400 months ≈ 33.3 years
We don't need higher prices to achieve developer margins. We need a development environment that beats the Canadian market.
 
policyenthusiast said:
It can, definitely. But the profitability for developers aren't just decided by rental prices, considerations are also made for the development charges (Ontario DCCs average almost 10x higher than Edmontons), land acquisition costs, availability of labour and approval processes. Edmonton is extremely competitive on all of these fronts.

If a home in Edmonton costs 100k to build and the rent yields 100$ per month, and a home in Ontario costs 500k to build and the yield is $500 per month, the cost recovery time is the same. Using actual 2025 numbers, here's that principle in action:

  • Edmonton:
    • Build cost: $515,000
    • Rent: $1,450/month
    • Recovery time: ~355 months ≈ 29.6 years
  • Regina:
    • Build cost: $450,000
    • Rent: $1,370/month
    • Recovery time: ~328 months ≈ 27.4 years
  • Toronto:
    • Build cost: $1,000,000
    • Rent: $2,500/month
    • Recovery time: ~400 months ≈ 33.3 years
We don't need higher prices to achieve developer margins. We need a development environment that beats the Canadian market.
Click to expand...

Trust me when I say this, developer margin is VERY thin in Edmonton and when margins are that thin it makes them difficult to finance.
 
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