What do you think of this project?

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    61
Airboy said:
As was pointed out to me on the weekend. Companies like Qualico and triple 5 play the long game. Qualico's office in Winnipeg was once way out of town. Triple 5 bought land west of the Henday. I believe Aldritt is the same way. It'll get done, just not at the speed we all expect.
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It could be a long term thing, but it was presented as something more immediate and it seems not to be happening so far. This and it being out of Aldritt's normal type of project are what have led to a lot of skepticism here.
 
David A said:
It could be a long term thing, but it was presented as something more immediate and it seems not to be happening so far. This and it being out of Aldritt's normal type of project are what have led to a lot of skepticism here.
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i think a lot of the skepticism comes from a misunderstanding of time frames and the definitions of "immediate".

to the public, immediate if not today or tomorrow is at least in the next year or two. they also want to see it done and then they want to see the next thing done.

the developer - and the city although with a different lens and different criteria - are concerned about how it perform after it has been delivered and the impacts it will have physically and financially over the next century or longer. there's not much difference over the course of the next century between something started this year or next year or two or five or ten years from now, particularly if that results in the development of something successful vs something unsuccessful.

for perspective, very few people know exactly when the cn tower was built even if they have some idea of the era. the same would be true for the old bay building or the mercer block, for the hotel mac or the westin,

i'm more concerned with the right things being executed and delivered properly than just with things being delivered immediately. besides, like us, i'm pretty sure aldritt didn't have a line item for a 2 1/2 year pandemic, work from home mandates, travel restrictions, supply chain breakdowns, inflation, rising interest rates and the pending risk of a recession. what was potentially immediate before those things probably needs a different timeframe and potentially different resolutions to be viable today (some of which may simply come down to having to wait for a bit). and, for what it's worth, those probably affect their "normal type of project" and cash flows every bit as much as the affect this one.
 
I don't think it is just a misunderstanding of time frames. I think this was presented as something that could go forward fairly quickly and it has not.

There may be valid reasons why it hasn't happened, but after a certain amount of time people start to wonder if it really will and I think that is valid too.
 
David A said:
Some people were confidently saying this was moving ahead just a few months ago ... now its 10 years.

Perhaps it may go ahead eventually, but the shifting time frames are not encouraging.
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perhaps i missed it but i don't recall aldritt ever actually announcing a start date for this project (other than accepting that 10 years from 2019 approval sunset on commencement).

any expectations based on conjecture from anyone outside of alldritt or outside that time frame are built on quicksand. the fact that projected time frames from some people who aren't directly involved and don't control the process are changing or not being met is meaningless. you might as well pay attention to those who insist that construction would never start as to those forecasting it will start tomorrow.

all of the time frames that have been tossed around have been based on nothing more than conjecture regardless of how well or how poorly informed those making it may have been. our arbitrarily picking any time frame is therefor based on what we would prefer to take place. choosing any of them to believe in and accepting it as a baseline against which to try and measure performance is a mug's game.
 
kcantor said:
perhaps i missed it but i don't recall aldritt ever actually announcing a start date for this project (other than accepting that 10 years from 2019 approval sunset on commencement).

any expectations based on conjecture from anyone outside of alldritt or outside that time frame are built on quicksand. the fact that projected time frames from some people who aren't directly involved and don't control the process are changing or not being met is meaningless. you might as well pay attention to those who insist that construction would never start as to those forecasting it will start tomorrow.

all of the time frames that have been tossed around have been based on nothing more than conjecture regardless of how well or how poorly informed those making it may have been. our arbitrarily picking any time frame is therefor based on what we would prefer to take place. choosing any of them to believe in and accepting it as a baseline against which to try and measure performance is a mug's game.
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Yes, the people confidently predicting it would start this spring were not official representatives for Alldritt. I do not know if they have any business relationship or connection with Alldritt or not to base that on.

However, I don't think when the project was put forward it was said it would not start for 10 years. I believe the impression was given it would be much sooner, whether that was an official deadline or not.

Also, when you start focusing only on 10 years (presumably because it is the deadline in the agreement), I think it can't be still regarded as a likely project. A lot of things can happen over that time, both expected an unexpected. So I think that only adds to the skepticism about this going ahead.
 
David A said:
Yes, the people confidently predicting it would start this spring were not official representatives for Alldritt. I do not know if they have any business relationship or connection with Alldritt or not to base that on.

However, I don't think when the project was put forward it was said it would not start for 10 years. I believe the impression was given it would be much sooner, whether that was an official deadline or not.

Also, when you start focusing only on 10 years (presumably because it is the deadline in the agreement), I think it can't be still regarded as a likely project. A lot of things can happen over that time, both expected an unexpected. So I think that only adds to the skepticism about this going ahead.
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i think you may be sliding to the other extreme... just as there was never an actual announcement that it would start "now", there was never an announcement that it would not start for 10 years. the 10 years is simply a sunset period on the agreements that were negotiated with the city. within that window (if it's not extended), the project - as any other - will start when market conditions and financing etc. are favourable.
 
I’ve seen a lot of things and also heard a lot over the years. Heard some rumoured dates thrown around and heard some promising things from people who work in and around real estate In the city and province. When covid came no one really gave shit about investing into the future, it was about surviving and saving what you’ve already done and how far you’ve come. Companies, people, and the city have been in survival mode for about 2 years. No one gave a shit about figuring out how to build a hotel during the pandemic because there was absolutely no point in trying. Banks were like the school bullies for the past 2 years. People investing in hospitality would go to the bank and come back with a wedgie and all their lunch money stolen. It’s very easy to look at an empty lot and say there’s nothing there. Because it’s 100% right, but also 100% obvious. Instead of seeing nothing built and announcing that nothing was built. Try to understand WHY nothing has been built. I don’t believe it was a lack of trying or even wanting to because why tf wouldn’t you? Like seriously if you were a developer, the lot aldritt owns is like a tiny piece of heaven. If they wanted to scratch the project then they would’ve. You have to see this from the point of view of the family and what they want to leave behind. It would probably be easier to have this exact same project in a few other cities. It’s not about filling the pics of land tho or turning a profit. Obviously as a corporation they want to profit and that’s why they’re taking their time. If profit was their only goal this project would’ve been scratched and they’d be working on other things. It’s not though. They want to leave something behind for the city but also for themselves to look at the skyline and point at a tower and know that when they’re 6ft down in the dirt their legacy is towering over. I’m willing to admit I was wrong about the spring and this project moving forward and I’ll admit I’m wrong again if it get scratched. I won’t give up on it tho cause that’s all too easy. Ups and downs are hard. The goal is the tower but the gift is the journey. I’ll use ice district and the arena as my reference.
 
archited said:
If it's "dead" as @David A seems to "suspect" then there isn't much to discuss. (Negativity causes my hip to dislocate)
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David A didn't present it as a foregone conclusion that the project is dead. He specifically said, "it may happen eventually." Considering there is no tangible movement on the project and that there hasn't been for quite some time, the will-they-or-won't-they presents some of the best opportunity for discussion.
 
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