[Gus Haynes]

Pop quiz: when was the last time Alldritt erected anything larger than a single family home or a white fence on a high-value piece of land?

Hey now. They're also quite good at erecting signs for their preferred political candidates!

 

[supaflyryguy]

It does not mean they can't execute a tower though. It is how astutely a leader of a construction company has been over his/her career. If you have X number of years in the field, so who have you recognized as truly innovative workers to assemble that division. This would be no different than PCL, or Clark Builders.

Can they? Probably. I'm questioning whether they ever will, and it appears they have no intention of building much of anything based on their long history of not building anything.

 

[EdmTrekker]

Anyone know where Mike Nickel is these days? Maybe he could help his buddies at Alldritt get their act and financing together. Maybe Mike has left Edmonton? Des he even have a social media presence?

 

[Clearshades]

Can they? Probably. I'm questioning whether they ever will, and it appears they have no intention of building much of anything based on their long history of not building anything.

They would not have saved all those compiled antiquated bricks just for the fun of it. Constructing a tower is not that hard...it follows the same principles as wood construction just different material methodology.

 

[IanO]

'Constructing a tower is not that hard'

Not complex at all; very little coordination between multiple disciplines, easy peasy pro forma creation and financing more or less a money tree.

 

[kcantor]

'Constructing a tower is not that hard'

Not complex at all; very little coordination between multiple disciplines, easy peasy pro forma creation and financing more or less a money tree.

noting of course that that’s the contractor’s role and the consultants’ role, not the developer’s role other than providing or securing the financing (and even that availability will be market driven, not skill driven).

what you’re saying here is like saying it’s really hard to ship something from one place to another because building and operating airplanes and ships and trains is complex and requires coordination between multiple disciplines and jurisdictions. the party shipping something is purchasing that expertise, not providing it.

in that sense, construction is no different. like shipping, it is very much a logistical and not a magical exercise. at their core, both start with a whole bunch of stuff “here” and want to end up with a whole bunch of stuff “there”.

the developers role is one of team building and providing vision and direction and money, not day to day execution.

 

[David A]

'Constructing a tower is not that hard'

Not complex at all; very little coordination between multiple disciplines, easy peasy pro forma creation and financing more or less a money tree.

Well if it was so easy then everyone would do it, including us critics! There is something to be said for those who make a hard thing look easy, or those who quietly go about and do what they say will without delay.

I think where us critics pounce, sometimes justifiably so, is where there is a lot of talk, but no or little action for an extended period of time.

 

[kcantor]

Well if it was so easy then everyone would do it, including us critics! There is something to be said for those who make a hard thing look easy, or those who quietly go about and do what they say will without delay.

I think where us critics pounce, sometimes justifiably so, is where there is a lot of talk, but no or little action for an extended period of time.

although in this case there seems to be much pouncing based on little talk and simply not knowing what action may well be taking place (is the glass half empty or half full?).

i also think that when it comes to towers, particularly mixed use towers, that there is a disconnect between perceived extended periods of time and actual extended periods of time. as a local example of that, station lands was purchased by qualico in 1998, broke ground for epcor tower in 2007 and is now starting the next set of towers in 2022.

 

[David A]

Initially a lot of talk and hype, but yes I suppose now very little talk from Alldritt and friends. The absence of this and absence of any discernable action which leads one to believe nothing is happening.

So if progress is being made, why is it not evident? I was more optimistic about this initially, but the lack of any discernible progress has made me much less so.

Unfortunately, that is not the only concern. Alldritt's track record (they have no experience with a project like this) also leads to skepticism.

I look forward to being proven wrong on this, but so far it seems this is going nowhere.

 

[MetroEd]

although in this case there seems to be much pouncing based on little talk and simply not knowing what action may well be taking place (is the glass half empty or half full?).

i also think that when it comes to towers, particularly mixed use towers, that there is a disconnect between perceived extended periods of time and actual extended periods of time. as a local example of that, station lands was purchased by qualico in 1998, broke ground for epcor tower in 2007 and is now starting the next set of towers in 2022.

Appreciate your input !! So I’m out of the loop a bit here….Epcor’s “next set of towers”?
If you have the time, please explain

 

[IanO]

^their residential phases that are now U/C.

 

[Whattagame]

noting of course that that’s the contractor’s role and the consultants’ role, not the developer’s role other than providing or securing the financing (and even that availability will be market driven, not skill driven).

what you’re saying here is like saying it’s really hard to ship something from one place to another because building and operating airplanes and ships and trains is complex and requires coordination between multiple disciplines and jurisdictions. the party shipping something is purchasing that expertise, not providing it.

in that sense, construction is no different. like shipping, it is very much a logistical and not a magical exercise. at their core, both start with a whole bunch of stuff “here” and want to end up with a whole bunch of stuff “there”.

the developers role is one of team building and providing vision and direction and money, not day to day execution.

This seems to downplay the complexity of a project like this from the developer's perspective. Let's forget about building and operating airplanes and ships and trains. In your analogy, the difference would be between sending a hotshot across town and coordinating a multimodal international shipment from a country with trade restrictions to a location in another that is not accessible by road.

You said it yourself: Stationlands has taken 24 years to begin phase 2, despite Qualico having substantial experience in tower developments. This suggests a level of competence an order of magnitude beyond that of a typical residential developer.

From lurking around these parts, I appreciate that you are more qualified to speak on this than most. I also don't think that it's overly controversial to say that developing a tower is substantially harder than projects within Aldritt's ken, though working with organizations who have built up that capability over decades might make it feel like a routine exercise.

 

[Stevey_G]

This seems to downplay the complexity of a project like this from the developer's perspective. Let's forget about building and operating airplanes and ships and trains. In your analogy, the difference would be between sending a hotshot across town and coordinating a multimodal international shipment from a country with trade restrictions to a location in another that is not accessible by road.

You said it yourself: Stationlands has taken 24 years to begin phase 2, despite Qualico having substantial experience in tower developments. This suggests a level of competence an order of magnitude beyond that of a typical residential developer.

From lurking around these parts, I appreciate that you are more qualified to speak on this than most. I also don't think that it's overly controversial to say that developing a tower is substantially harder than projects within Aldritt's ken, though working with organizations who have built up that capability over decades might make it feel like a routine exercise.

Isn’t qualico primarily a residential developer with one tower under its belt though? Forgive me and correct me if I’m wrong I just always thought they focused on suburban development.

 

[Whattagame]

Isn’t qualico primarily a residential developer with one tower under its belt though? Forgive me and correct me if I’m wrong I just always thought they focused on suburban development.

I'm just going by their website, but it looks like First Edmonton Place in 1982 was their first tower development, and they have had multiple mid-rise residential and commercial projects throughout the US and Canada and a few more towers sprinkled in. They're also vertically integrated in multiple aspects of property development giving them a broader understanding of the process.

 

[Clearshades]

noting of course that that’s the contractor’s role and the consultants’ role, not the developer’s role other than providing or securing the financing (and even that availability will be market driven, not skill driven).

what you’re saying here is like saying it’s really hard to ship something from one place to another because building and operating airplanes and ships and trains is complex and requires coordination between multiple disciplines and jurisdictions. the party shipping something is purchasing that expertise, not providing it.

in that sense, construction is no different. like shipping, it is very much a logistical and not a magical exercise. at their core, both start with a whole bunch of stuff “here” and want to end up with a whole bunch of stuff “there”.

the developers role is one of team building and providing vision and direction and money, not day to day execution.

I agree whole heartedly Theee are the key elements a company has to be mindful of.