[Midtown Urbanist]

I'm not so doom-and-gloom. When the Crosstown opens to customers, there will be incentive to extend it east. It's a relatively easy extension of a (then) existing operating line, and a quick way to get a lot of public support.

Wouldn't even be shocked to see a Toronto mayoral candidate endorse it in a coming election, if nothing comes from the province.

 

[kamira51]

I think it's too early to say the Conservatives are doing 'good' with transit. Until there's actually shovel's in the ground it's just another set of plans.

The Eglinton Crosstown, Finch, Hurontario...all of these projects were under construction or moving forward when the Liberals were in power.

But the liberals were in power since what? early 2000s. they had a decade to get those projects started. I really do hope the conservatives win a second term, so the proposed projects get finalized and shovels in the ground, before a new government comes in to power and the cycle repeats.

 

[drum118]

But the liberals were in power since what? early 2000s. they had a decade to get those projects started. I really do hope the conservatives win a second term, so the proposed projects get finalized and shovels in the ground, before a new government comes in to power and the cycle repeats.

You forget the Liberals had to deal with the down turn around 2008 that saw projects push out 10 years or more than plan due to lack of funding.

You forget there was a mayor in 2010 that kill a lot of transit plans that were about to see construction and being paid for by the Liberals, only follow by another mayor who another vision. Then you had a council that want priciest lines in place of lines that would do them cheaper and faster that a few would be in operation today.

As long as TTC goes to a single source for vehicles, they aren't getting product delivery on time that a number of lines would be lacking equipment today if they got built in the first place.

Can you say the Flexity Outlook that will not be 100% in service until 2026 considering the order was completed Jan 2020. It taking an average of 300 days for a car to return after been shipped to QC in place of 195 day as plan and then take another 45-100 days to have ir reenter service. The TR still not meeting target requirement with a lot of issues years after the order was complete.

I guess you weren't around in the 90's to watch the PC kill transit province wide that there are places still to recovery from those cuts. Toronto happen to be one of them.

Be prepare to accept what gets built under the PC this term, but more so after another term if they stay in power after 2022. That 2nd shoe really hurts when it falls.

 

[Rainforest]

It comes down to politics as well. Scarborough will not vote anything but Liberal/NDP. Ford has nothing to lose if cancels SSE on the other hand Ford has a chance to capture a lot of votes in Etobicoke and swing some seats.

Scarborough is much more a swing vote territory than Etobicoke.

2018 Ontario election results map

2018 Ontario election results map

www.therecord.com

Scarborough: 4 PCs, 1 Lib, 1 NDP. Etobicoke: 3 PCs.

Plus EGW will connect to Pearson which is a major plus for the city as a whole. Lastly lets not forget EGW will be passing Fords house. There is no political benefits of building the SSE at all.

Ford's house doesn't really affect anything. Doug will not take transit even if it stops right on his front porch.

The Pearson connection matters, but it could be provided by an express bus route from Mt Dennis if EGW was to be delayed. While a failure to build any replacement for SRT would cause a transportation collapse in the east end, and that collapse would be blamed on the provincial government since it ventured prominently into the city transit planning.

 

[daniel_kryz]

You forget the Liberals had to deal with the down turn around 2008 that saw projects push out 10 years or more than plan due to lack of funding.

You forget there was a mayor in 2010 that kill a lot of transit plans that were about to see construction and being paid for by the Liberals, only follow by another mayor who another vision. Then you had a council that want priciest lines in place of lines that would do them cheaper and faster that a few would be in operation today.

As long as TTC goes to a single source for vehicles, they aren't getting product delivery on time that a number of lines would be lacking equipment today if they got built in the first place. Can you say the Flexity Outlook that will not be 100% in service until 2026 considering the order was completed Jan 2020. The TR still not meeting target requirement with a lot of issues years after the order was complete.

I guess you weren't around in the 90's to watch the PC kill transit province wide that there are places still to recovery from those cuts. Toronto happen to be one of them.

Be prepare to accept what gets built under the PC this term, but more so after another term if they stay in power after 2022. That 2nd shoe really hurts when it falls.

The PCs have, thankfully, changed a lot after Mike Harris. Of course, Toronto's politics were partially at fault, but the Liberals always set deadlines for construction start but never even tried to meet them. Instead of uploading subway expansion (as the current gov has done) to get on with building, they continued to support the dysfunctional TTC's expansion plans. Look at how much time and money was lost, they were good with plans but terrible with implementation. Furthermore, they did nothing to fast-track the Crosstown or any other subway project. 10 years ago, they were promising to start construction on the Yonge North Extension, and never did. Please understand that, despite some problems, the current government has an integrated and organized transit planning/building process, and they are getting things done quickly. No longer is Metrolinx some obscure agency that "collaborates" with others, they are the leader in all major projects, although it would be better if they could amalgamate all agencies (TTC, YRT, ...) into MX. That would truly transform the network.

 

[syn]

You forget the Liberals had to deal with the down turn around 2008 that saw projects push out 10 years or more than plan due to lack of funding.

You forget there was a mayor in 2010 that kill a lot of transit plans that were about to see construction and being paid for by the Liberals, only follow by another mayor who another vision. Then you had a council that want priciest lines in place of lines that would do them cheaper and faster that a few would be in operation today.

As long as TTC goes to a single source for vehicles, they aren't getting product delivery on time that a number of lines would be lacking equipment today if they got built in the first place.

Can you say the Flexity Outlook that will not be 100% in service until 2026 considering the order was completed Jan 2020. It taking an average of 300 days for a car to return after been shipped to QC in place of 195 day as plan and then take another 45-100 days to have ir reenter service. The TR still not meeting target requirement with a lot of issues years after the order was complete.

I guess you weren't around in the 90's to watch the PC kill transit province wide that there are places still to recovery from those cuts. Toronto happen to be one of them.

Be prepare to accept what gets built under the PC this term, but more so after another term if they stay in power after 2022. That 2nd shoe really hurts when it falls.

Good points.

The Liberals bear plenty of responsibility for where we're currently at. It's easy to forget though that if not for political interference, the Eglinton LRT would probably be finished, the Scarborough LRT would be up and running and we'd probably be looking at an Eglinton East extension right now.

Finch West, Eglinton West and Hurontario also predate the current government.

 

[sixrings]

Ford's house doesn't really affect anything. Doug will not take transit even if it stops right on his front porch.

There's plenty of Scarborough residents which advocate only for a Subway to increase property values and have zero intention of ever taking transit. Doug I don't believe is above this type of thinking.

 

[JasonParis]

It comes down to politics as well. Scarborough will not vote anything but Liberal/NDP. Ford has nothing to lose if cancels SSE on the other hand Ford has a chance to capture a lot of votes in Etobicoke and swing some seats. Plus EGW will connect to Pearson which is a major plus for the city as a whole. Lastly lets not forget EGW will be passing Fords house. There is no political benefits of building the SSE at all.

That's not true at all. Scarborough votes quite conservative municipally. Some ridings went PC in the most recent provincial election and have been pierced many times federally by the Cons too.

 

[drum118]

Scarborough is much more a swing vote territory than Etobicoke.

2018 Ontario election results map

2018 Ontario election results map

www.therecord.com

Scarborough: 4 PCs, 1 Lib, 1 NDP. Etobicoke: 3 PCs.



Ford's house doesn't really affect anything. Doug will not take transit even if it stops right on his front porch.

The Pearson connection matters, but it could be provided by an express bus route from Mt Dennis if EGW was to be delayed. While a failure to build any replacement for SRT would cause a transportation collapse in the east end, and that collapse would be blamed on the provincial government since it ventured prominently in the city transit planning.

The SRT issues is a 4 place to point the blame once it crash. Plan one was to see the extension built first and shut down the line for 3 years to rebuilt the existing line and open around 2015.

First off, the PC under the leadership of Bill Davis forced TTC to change its plan streetcar line to Malvern to the current SRT line as it wanted to be a seller of this new product and use the SRT line as an example of it. The Government sold that company off for peanuts with only 9 lines world wide using that product today.

During the EA, Metrolinx was pushing the SkyTrain that it wouldn't end at Kennedy as plan, but Union Station and going out to Durham at a later date.

The city went after the Pam Am Games that were to be held 2015. The plan was to build the extension as plan and close the line down after the games. It was to be in service by 2018.

With that delay, a number of Scarborough councilors push the subway extension and arm twist other councilors to change the LRT plan to a short subway extension and telling the Malvern are folks you will only get buses regardless of the promise of steel rail system as plan for in the 80's.

The DRL has been on the books for 122 years that the first phase has been cancel twice after approval to built it.

When the PC came into power, it change the plan subway extension a number of times as well now owing the extension.

As for Eglinton East, it needs to be built as plan ASP and up to Malvern, but more than a decade away from seeing construction on it.

 

[drum118]

The PCs have, thankfully, changed a lot after Mike Harris. Of course, Toronto's politics were partially at fault, but the Liberals always set deadlines for construction start but never even tried to meet them. Instead of uploading subway expansion (as the current gov has done) to get on with building, they continued to support the dysfunctional TTC's expansion plans. Look at how much time and money was lost, they were good with plans but terrible with implementation. Furthermore, they did nothing to fast-track the Crosstown or any other subway project. 10 years ago, they were promising to start construction on the Yonge North Extension, and never did. Please understand that, despite some problems, the current government has an integrated and organized transit planning/building process, and they are getting things done quickly. No longer is Metrolinx some obscure agency that "collaborates" with others, they are the leader in all major projects, although it would be better if they could amalgamate all agencies (TTC, YRT, ...) into MX. That would truly transform the network.

Amalgamate all agencies in the GTA was the goal of Metrolinx from the start, like the London UK Model.

Politics play a large roll in where we are at all levels and it not good.

 

[Rainforest]

There's plenty of Scarborough residents which advocate only for a Subway to increase property values and have zero intention of ever taking transit. Doug I don't believe is above this type of thinking.

I can't really deny that possibility, but it seems a bit illogical to me. Property value is what the buyers are willing to pay for the house. If the buyers are not going to use transit, then why would they pay extra for a transit-friendly location.

 

[Rainforest]

The SRT issues is a 4 place to point the blame once it crash. Plan one was to see the extension built first and shut down the line for 3 years to rebuilt the existing line and open around 2015.

I don't disagree that there are multiple places to point the blame, logically. But the practical impact would fall on the current government, if they fail to avert a transportation collapse.

I don't think many voters will be mad at Bill Davis for his role 35+ years ago; and even if some are angry, they can't do anything. But the voters certainly can punish the current government when the elections time comes.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Voters are responsible for this mess, largely. It was evident to politicians after the Scarborough Subway boondoggle that trying to plan transit on a rational basis doesn't sell, at least in the GTA. It seems to be possible in other Canadian cities.

 

[JasonParis]

Amalgamate all agencies in the GTA was the goal of Metrolinx from the start, like the London UK Model.
Politics play a large roll in where we are at all levels and it not good.

That's not the London, UK model. Tfl historically only operates transit within the GLC's jurisdiction (which would be equivalent to amalgamated Toronto). Tfl does not run transit in the home counties or beyond. HOWEVER, that's recently started to change a bit with Tfl purchasing some of the private services that bring commuter rail into London, including their own coming Elizabeth Line. Also, London-proper is confusing, because while it looks like everything is under the Tfl brand, it is actually a bunch of public and private entities operating the different verticals, so many are none the wiser.

 

[drum118]

That's not the London, UK model. Tfl historically only operates transit within the GLC's jurisdiction (which would be equivalent to amalgamated Toronto). Tfl does not run transit in the home counties or beyond. HOWEVER, that's recently started to change a bit with Tfl purchasing some of the private services that bring commuter rail into London, including their own coming Elizabeth Line. Also, London-proper is confusing, because while it looks like everything is under the Tfl brand, it is actually a bunch of public and private entities operating the different verticals, so many are none the wiser.

True, but Metrolinx was using it as the base model and adding the GTAH on top of it to have one system for the GTAH. The closest we have today would be York, Durham and Waterloo where various systems merger into one.

York is the closest to TfI were there are various companies operating the system and they must comply with the region standards, along with uniforms and the vehicles purchase by the region.

Every X years, York put the system up for bidding as various parts and open to anyone who qualify to bid on it.