[Rainforest]

The previous funding for EELRT prior to 2016 is very relevant. The fact that it was announced and then abandoned before Rob Ford even got elected, shows that the governments always saw this project as something expendable. We need to look at the whole history, not arbitrarily discard everything that happened around this project prior to 2016.

Etobicoke already has a much better access to subways than Scarborough. Nearly every bus stop in Etobicoke is within a 20-min or less bus ride to a subway station. Southern and central Etobicoke is linked to the Bloor subway stations, while the north / Rexdale is linked to the TYSSE stations by the E-W bus routes and soon-to-be-build Finch West LRT.

In Scarborough, in many cases you need to take a 20-30 min bus ride just to reach the SRT, then another 10 min on SRT, and only then you get to the subway terminus. The reason people change their tune when it comes to Scarborough is that the current transit situation there is much worse than anywhere else in the city; not because of any kind of inherent bias.

 

[Rainforest]

Im pretty much against Eglinton West being buried even though ill use it. Im pretty much for a proper subway instead of whatever technology OL is using despite ill never use it. And I was pro surface, and RT conversion for Sheppard, STC, Eglinton for the few times I go visit my friends in Scarborough.

Now Eglinton is getting red paint and according to some super optimistic people on here, lead by OneCity, Sheppard will get extended to STC as a Subway. Im confused why people n the east refuse to admit that they are wanting to take every transit dollar possible.

It is reasonable for people to advocate for transit in their area. Doesn't mean they will actually get every transit dollar.

The West end is doing OK in the last 15 years; just got TYSSE, is about to get Finch West LRT, and will probably get Eglinton West in one form or another.

 

[sixrings]

It is reasonable for people to advocate for transit in their area. Doesn't mean they will actually get every transit dollar.

The West end is doing OK in the last 15 years; just got TYSSE, is about to get Finch West LRT, and will probably get Eglinton West in one form or another.

Scarborough residents it seems are the majority of people advocating and or begging for dollars on these threads

 

[Rainforest]

Scarborough residents it seems are the majority of people advocating and or begging for dollars on these threads

It is hard to determine where each of the posters resides. Besides, this forum or any other online forums have limited impact on the actual transit funding allocation.

 

[Aplus23]

As a resident of Scarborough, the best solution was always the original one. Convert the RT to an LRT within the same corridor and then build the EELRT. That would've satisfied all of Scarborough. A Sheppard East LRT would've been the cherry on top as well.

I live at Morningside n Lawrence and it takes 30+ minutes by bus to enter Kennedy station. That's unacceptable. If I want to go to Young n finch area, it's even more practical to sit on a bus for 1hr 15minutes then it would be for me to go to Kennedy station and take the train there.

This subway that is in the works for Scarborough doesn't help anyone east of mccowan rd

 

[sixrings]

It is hard to determine where each of the posters resides. Besides, this forum or any other online forums have limited impact on the actual transit funding allocation.

It is stilltiresome to listen to onecity even ifno one istaking him seriously

 

[adrianaliu]

was extending BD along the stouffville line and then the SRT guideway never an option? i know the turning radius is not enough to accomodate the longer vehicles, but the cost of redoing that is so much lower than a wholeass underground subway even if it requires the expropriation of a property or two. is the viaduct too narrow to accomodate a subway???

 

[ARG1]

was extending BD along the stouffville line and then the SRT guideway never an option? i know the turning radius is not enough to accomodate the longer vehicles, but the cost of redoing that is so much lower than a wholeass underground subway even if it requires the expropriation of a property or two. is the viaduct too narrow to accomodate a subway???

Tbh, I'm not sure the Stouffville Line corridor is even the best place to put RT anyway. Part of the reason why I disliked the Scarborough LRT proposal is because the corridor is bad. All of the stations are located in underpasses where TOD is very difficult to develop, where you have to walk a good 3 mins to even reach the streetside. The corridor is also located in an industrial park which isn't exactly the most useful locating for subway stations. This basically makes the corridor wasted use of space. A benefit of having the subway run under Danforth and McCowan is that you are able to connect the new station directly to nearby developments, and densify the corridors to generate ridership for the extension.

 

[Steve X]

I think it's important to improve fare integration with GO and have TTC buses route to GO stations in East Scarborough. It's just going to take 45 min on the subway to get from there to downtown.

 

[W. K. Lis]

was extending BD along the stouffville line and then the SRT guideway never an option? i know the turning radius is not enough to accomodate the longer vehicles, but the cost of redoing that is so much lower than a wholeass underground subway even if it requires the expropriation of a property or two. is the viaduct too narrow to accomodate a subway???

Where were you in 2010, when the Eglinton East LRT was first proposed?

 

[adrianaliu]

Tbh, I'm not sure the Stouffville Line corridor is even the best place to put RT anyway. Part of the reason why I disliked the Scarborough LRT proposal is because the corridor is bad. All of the stations are located in underpasses where TOD is very difficult to develop, where you have to walk a good 3 mins to even reach the streetside. The corridor is also located in an industrial park which isn't exactly the most useful locating for subway stations. This basically makes the corridor wasted use of space. A benefit of having the subway run under Danforth and McCowan is that you are able to connect the new station directly to nearby developments, and densify the corridors to generate ridership for the extension.

i dont disagree but is slightly better access to adjacent parcels worth several billion dollerz?? I imagine most of the ridership at lawrence and ellesmere comes from bus transfers regardless of the location. let the intensification happen at Scarborough centre and build the line to connect to it with the most cost effective alignment.

 

[Rainforest]

Tbh, I'm not sure the Stouffville Line corridor is even the best place to put RT anyway. Part of the reason why I disliked the Scarborough LRT proposal is because the corridor is bad. All of the stations are located in underpasses where TOD is very difficult to develop, where you have to walk a good 3 mins to even reach the streetside. The corridor is also located in an industrial park which isn't exactly the most useful locating for subway stations. This basically makes the corridor wasted use of space. A benefit of having the subway run under Danforth and McCowan is that you are able to connect the new station directly to nearby developments, and densify the corridors to generate ridership for the extension.

There were some issues with that option:
1. The turning radius, as you mentioned.
2. Kennedy subway station would have to be rebuilt, since the existing platforms are oriented E-W and the trains cannot turn north easily after serving those platforms.
3. Metrolinx probably wanted to retain space in the Stouffville rail corridor for expanded GO service, rather than lend it to the subway.

That said, it is entirely possible that all those hurdles could be overcome and the resulting route would be cheaper than the fully underground route under McCowan. For example, they could build a new Kennedy subway station located above ground in the rail corridor, oriented N-S, its southern end 100 m north of Eglinton. Then run on surface in the rail corridor (Lawrence Stn being in the same place as today's SRT station), till about 500 m south of Ellesmere. Then dip underground and veer north-east, having an underground STC station a bit closer to Brimley, and then the terminus at Sheppard & McCowan. In total, that's about 3.5 km above ground and 4.5 km underground, instead of 8 km underground only.

Both the City and Metrolinx probably under-explored some options. They had the rail corridor option in their evaluation list, but that one was exactly following the SRT route and probably facing hurdles; it was rejected.

 

[syn]

i dont disagree but is slightly better access to adjacent parcels worth several billion dollerz?? I imagine most of the ridership at lawrence and ellesmere comes from bus transfers regardless of the location. let the intensification happen at Scarborough centre and build the line to connect to it with the most cost effective alignment.

The rational answer is no.

Unfortunately Scarborough rapid transit expansion is heavily based on political considerations, rather than evidence-based planning.

For some ardent SSE supporters, the answer to your question is "yes". There's no price that isn't worth it, no matter the project. The nearly $5 billion one stop SSE proved that.

Sadly that means this LRT extension is a no-go.

 

[OneCity]

I don't expect the Province to leave the City completely off the hook for the Province's 4 priority projects. Metrolinx took control and will (hopefully) provide a large portion of funds, but it would be unlikely they treat the City so kindly as to let them not contribute at all. The City's collected SSE levy will certainly be the target.

If that's not the case, and the City is free to use its own transit funds however it wishes, then indeed it will be a great idea to direct the SSE levy towards Eglinton East. Actually, Patrick Brown made that kind of suggestion during his brief period as the PC leader. But I never heard that confirmed by Doug Ford, and Ford has a much more extensive transit agenda and therefore is unlikely to miss the chance to shift some of the burden to the city.

Why is city council pretending that SmartTrack is still alive? - NOW Magazine

Between the Scarborough subway and SmartTrack, there is some $2.5 billion available in reserve funds that could be used now to pay for service improvements Toronto needs

nowtoronto.com

It was part of the deal in the upload of subway capital.

When City blatantly refuses to even plan with equity and detail even after the previous attempts failed miserably it is very shameful. You have to really want to ignore the problem to not see or simply like many involved in the planning decision making just live here and dont care to pay attention.

 

[OneCity]

The rational answer is no.

Unfortunately Scarborough rapid transit expansion is heavily based on political considerations, rather than evidence-based planning.

For some ardent SSE supporters, the answer to your question is "yes". There's no price that isn't worth it, no matter the project. The nearly $5 billion one stop SSE proved that.

Sadly that means this LRT extension is a no-go.

'evidence-based'? Here we go again.

There is a cost to building detailed transit and in this case actual rapid transit, and an actual cycle lane sadly seems to be too much for here. Really sad if we see the 'experts' and 'evidence-based' political weaponization used against Scarborough residents again.

Furthermore 'subway supporters' wanted to simply move on with a reasonable plan. Quickest way was to continue the one-stop mess left from the Provicial Liberals and City. Trust me people here wanted 'evidence-based' connected Central transit, not some hacked in, mis-placed trasnfer LRT. Early attempts to connect the LRT were stonewalled by council and Doug fixed council secondary mess in the best possible form to move forward.

The evidence is there are too many planners,and politicians involved in City planning have no clue about Scarborough needs and simply dont care whatsoever about the future for Scarborough or its residents. The criteria we plan around becomes screwed, corners are cut, actual residents are ignored, then become bullied by outsider politicians, non Scarborough 'journalists', political operatives, and the media with mis-used terminology used against the people here. Then this sadly it seems to become acceptable.

Just like previously this current corner cutting nonsense wont end well politically once called out and just like the subway we may all pay far more then what some involved are trying to save, even worse if outsider political forces try to prevent 'dong better' again at all cost